Why do debates about religion get so negative?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Defender of Freedom, Dec 5, 2014.

  1. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    LOL. And again, you simply have no understanding here. But it is understandable to me why that is. I don't expect others to have spent the time I have with these issues. And as I said, many Christians, the fundamentalists, certainly would disagree with my own understanding. To me, its obvious, what Christ meant, but perhaps it takes something else to "get it".

    The teachings of Christ were actually in large part, mystical in nature. There is something there, that lies beyond the literal words. I think there has to be an insight into the teachings, which isn't that easy to get. But this is part and parcel of the very nature of enlightenment. So when I read his words, I don't understand them as you do, nor even as orthodox Christians do. For your understanding, and their understanding sounds so infantile to me. And just wrong. LOL.

    The lake of fire is allegory, even a symbol for the state of being of an ordinary human being, who has psychological fears, and great psychological suffering, as grief, as stress, as worry, as the fear of losing his life, or the life of his loved one, and so on. Most people are inwardly in this hell, when it is possible not to experience any of it, as a part of living. That is the hell Christ was talking about. And it is a hell. All of this hell is because of the existence in consciousness of a duality, the ego, and the non ego. The thinker who is perceived to be separate from thought, the experiencer and the experience, the judger and the judged. This inner duality is the source of all psychological fear and suffering. Salvation, or enlightenment is an event in human consciousness itself, that the ego cannot do, achieve, or force.

    JC was in this state of being. And he had a human body. So, if you are to be enlightened, saved, reconciled to the father, you will have to be just like him, a physical body that has a changed consciousness. So, you go through him, experience what happened to him, when he transcended the duality.
    The language used confuses us, but the people back then probably understood it differently than the modern human.

    There is no place for myth, magic and hocus pocus in the real deal. That man has turned it into magic, hocus pocus, myths, keeps them from understanding the dirt and bones of the simplicity here.

    I think the Christians and people that use your argument are in the same boat. Neither group really has an understanding here. But that is easily understood too. But then, I doubt if either group really wants the only understanding that is coherent. :) Too much fun fighting about it. LOL.
     
  2. Micketto

    Micketto New Member Past Donor

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    People who don't believe in God don't create 20+ threads per day, in a religion forum, trying to argue that God doesn't exist.

    People who don't want to believe in God, but can't help being obsessed over the idea of it, to the point of posting 70% of the replies in their own threads.... do.


    You're very welcome.



    You should pray and ask God to convince you He doesn't exist.
     
  3. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    OK, suppose what you're saying is true. So what? Why is something people said thousands of years ago more worthy of being followed than what a modern intelligent person says today? If Mog the cave man believed in the whispering owl god and said that you will have eternal life if you fly away with him on a dark night would you believe it? So if you won't believe in Mog's whispering owl god why should anyone believe in your favorite ethnocentric Middle Eastern deity which is just as imaginary as Mog's god is?

    The Israelites didn't believe in Moses' imaginary deity and he had to kill them to get them to even consider it. Whenever they had a chance they tossed it into the trash can. It's doubtful if most muslims believe in Allah but they have to act like they do or else the fanatics will kill them. And because it's a peer pressure religion they always have to act like they believe it even if they hate it just like the Israelites hated Moses' imaginary deity. Christians can fake it. They don't even have to know anything about the religion other than a couple of words that Jesus supposedly said. They just don't want to go to hell and they want to live forever. Their fear controls them. Most atheists aren't afraid to say that all gods are all BS.
     
  4. FreedomSeeker

    FreedomSeeker Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of "Thomas": there is a huge gap in Jesus' life in the Bible. Why would they leave out much of the life of the one and only "son of god" unless it was bad? The Infancy Gospel of Thomas (NOT to be confused with the Gospel of Thomas that you refer to) says that Jesus murdered/maimed multiple people as a youngster:
    "A neighbor messed up the brook that he was supernaturally playing in, so Jesus cursed him; “thou shalt be withered like a tree, and shalt not bear leaves, neither root, nor fruit. And straightway that lad withered up wholly” (III.2-3). Another boy bumps into him, and Jesus straight up killed the kid (IV.1). When that boy’s parents got mad at Jesus for, you know, murdering their child, he cursed them with blindness (V.1)."

    "And no man after that durst provoke him, lest he should curse him, and he should be maimed." Jesus, like ISIS, would maim people who would "provoke" him. No wonder they don't mention much in the Bible about Jesus' younger life.
    http://www.newrepublic.com/article/107506/top-three-heresies-gnostic-gospels

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    You are far more fearless than most religious people are. I admire your courage. A true role model.
     
  5. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    I understand what Jesus was saying and most of it was pure garbage. He was a bigoted megalomaniac. And Paul was a lunatic. If he was a god (no such thing exists) Jesus had zero interest in explaining his message to the world. Even his disciples got tired of his mumbo jumbo.

    John 16:29 (NCV) = "Then the followers of Jesus said, “You are speaking clearly to us now and are not using stories that are hard to understand."
     
  6. Dood

    Dood New Member

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    Here you go again, speaking for somebody else.
     
  7. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Always read the story for yourself and think about each thing that you read. Then draw your own conclusions. Don't let my biases influence you. My discussions over the years have given me new ways of thinking about the religious fairy tales. You have to go through your own evolutionary process and become your own role model.
     
  8. FreedomSeeker

    FreedomSeeker Well-Known Member

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    Well said.
    (So you're even more of a role model now. :-D )
     
  9. Dood

    Dood New Member

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    It worked for me when I was unaffiliated, it works for me now that I am affiliated, not certain it matters.
     
  10. FreedomSeeker

    FreedomSeeker Well-Known Member

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    I believe in you, so let me get real crazy here and say that YOU TOO likely would have said (instead of what Jesus said), "the only way to the father is through morality and good works, because it's not all about me." Am I right, or would you have put YOURSELF above morality and good works if you had Jesus' magic X-men super-powers?
     
  11. FreedomSeeker

    FreedomSeeker Well-Known Member

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    Now that I've finally found someone who has a direct link to Jesus, can you please pray to him to stop farting around and finally, finally, give us the cure for AIDS that he's been purposefully keeping from us all these years, please?
     
  12. FreedomSeeker

    FreedomSeeker Well-Known Member

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    Mohammad is just as real as Jesus because a Muslim's prayers get answered at the same rate, basically, as prayers to Jesus do.
     
  13. kgeiger002

    kgeiger002 Active Member Past Donor

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    I don't claim to know everything (the big picture) but I will tell you this. You don't have a clue either. So stop all your "know it all BS!" You are as much in the dark as any Christian so stop with your "I know more than you crap" ....you are as naive as everyone else! ....so get off your high horse!!!!
     
  14. FreedomSeeker

    FreedomSeeker Well-Known Member

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    Riot, on some thread, actually said to me "and the horse you rode in on", so I'm a bit confused as to what I should do with my horse here. :-D
     
  15. kgeiger002

    kgeiger002 Active Member Past Donor

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    You humor me....I was having a bad day but you made me laugh - thanks for that!
     
  16. Dood

    Dood New Member

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    If that's how it worked.

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    Is this supposed to be an insult?
     
  17. FreedomSeeker

    FreedomSeeker Well-Known Member

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    No, not at all, I was just pointing out that you likely don't believe in Mohammad, but please realize that prayers to Allah (Mohammad's invisible friend) get answered at roughly the same rate that prayers to Jesus get answered, so since you likely don't believe in Allah/Mohammad, you might want to really re-examine whether your own prayers are really actually getting answered by a different magic man.....

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    So you're saying that Jesus is not powerful enough, or caring enough, or isn't listening enough, to give us the cure for a deadly disease that has killed thousands of innocent children with no end in sight?

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    Should I "get off", or, uh, should I "get off"...... :-D :-D
     
  18. Dood

    Dood New Member

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    Not at all, I'm saying you don't grasp the concept. It's been laid out in here multiple times.
     
  19. kgeiger002

    kgeiger002 Active Member Past Donor

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    ("Should I "get off", or, uh, should I "get off"......")

    I would suggest a long jump! ....or maybe a leap of faith! :)
     
  20. FreedomSeeker

    FreedomSeeker Well-Known Member

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    Hehe. :)
     
  21. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    I'll give you this. You are tenacious.
     
  22. Defender of Freedom

    Defender of Freedom Member

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    I appreciate your tolerance and for not insulting my beliefs. With regards to the separation of church and state, this is not stated in the Constitution, however this has probably already been noted to you. The first amendment states: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." We can agree to this, congress nor any branch can establish a church such as in Britain and the Church of England, and it cannot prohibit the free exercise thereof. We can agree that your tax dollars should not go to any religious organization or event.

    However, If a religious group were to request permission from their local government to use public land to set up a display and the display is privately funded and private donations pay for the upkeep, is there a constitutional problem? There are many christian memorials dedicated to soldiers of their communities, many of them in this situation, at the time it was no problem as the symbols signified the faith the soldiers held. There was a story a few years ago about how atheist groups tried to take down the memorial because of "separation of Church and State" and it "offended" some atheists. However the memorial was privately funded and privately kept, and the local government at the time allowed it to be built on that land as a community memorial. Now we have a conflict of interests.

    There is also a debate on whether atheism can be categorized as a religion, considering its organization and how they also receive tax exempt status. If it were determined that it was, then one could argue that secularism is the promotion of atheist ideology. I do not know if this could be determined but if it were, we would be in quite the pickle, don't you think? lol
     
  23. FreedomSeeker

    FreedomSeeker Well-Known Member

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    I should have added:
    To believe in prayer one has to, deep down, subconsciously, believe that they are somehow intrinsically better than most other people are. Belief in prayer is a supremacist belief, if you will.
     
  24. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe I have even GOADED a person who was just simply Religious or had Faith into a debate.

    I will say I have had many a Religious Zealot reply to me and yes...there is a big difference.

    There really is only one base of Moral Ground....KNOWLEDGE.

    AboveAlpha
     
  25. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    LOL!!!

    Yeah right!!

    Please tell me when the last time a few Atheists rang your doorbell trying to convince you to change your beliefs??

    LOL!!!

    AboveAlpha
     

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