Why on earth do you believe that America is the reason for the failures of the rest of the world? Saying something like that just proves how ignorant you are. America created this system of global free trade which has created the biggest expansion of wealth in human history. If it werent for american "exploitation" a billion asian people would still be living in extreme poverty. Criticizing white people even if they havent done anything wrong doesnt make you enlightened, it just makes you a (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*).
If you had read the post you would have discovered that I was not talking about America but about the person's description of America. I made that very clear. Other posters who came on after me also spoke about his description of America. The fact that I made a point that I was talking about his description of America rather than America itself makes it clear that what I was talking about was not America but his description of America. Be very careful when you call people ignorant it may as it just has, come back to yourself. Expansion of wealth does not necessarily mean people get a better standard of living. It just requires more money to be put into circulation. However I am not here getting involved in world economics as that was not what I was replying to or talking about. This is just racism. It's one of the most racist things I have seen here. I never stated the race of who I was talking about who were in any case his fantasy rather than the real people. To my knowledge the US, being a nation of immigrants has people of just about every different race there is, if there is indeed such a thing as race. That you see them all as white indicates your inability to know or acknowledge the diversity of race within the US. The only people from the US who you acknowledge are white people. That is racism.
????????? Is it serious? More considering that is the rights who has governing all this time and is the one that applied the worst reforms agains the citiziens... PS: I am seeing that you are from Finland, don't you like your country? With all the welfare that you have?
Oh, nice to see that the song has changed a little! Now, having child benefits, universal health care, long term unemployment, and lots of vacation is no longer considered "social democracy" or "left!" Nice. . .could you please tell that to the extreme right in the US who insist that Obama wants to "destroy" this country by making us to the image of "socialist" Europe?
Good! That's what I thought! Then, will you inform our friends on the Extreme right that that is the case?
The privileged and peasant classes have been at odds in europe for so long that most common people there see themselves as a different class. The ruling class did everything it could to suppress democracy and finally lost control. Now that democracy is the norm the common people do not want to lose the rights and privileges their parents and grandparents fought for. In the US no one wants to think of themselves as a lower class citizen, we identify with the upper class, we see them as hard working and productive. We do not want to see ourselves as losers despite our circumstances. Europeans see them as aloof and conceited. It is a very different social view of the world and politics. They remember a longer history.
??? What? And why people does not vote the rights is because a suicide and only do that uninformed people and you have the example in the answer that I am doing to TBryant in the next paragraph Exactly, however there are countries that are going in the total autodestruction like Spain. Now in Spain is governing in absolute majority the real right(PP), and is doing everything to end with the welfare state, applying wrong policies like cutting in science but they don't cut in military, religion, security, privileges of themselves... Or wanting to invest more in construction, LOL when Spain has thousands of empty houses.... Voting the right is vote for precariety, poverty and emigration.
Amazing post, even for this forum. And now US created global free trade...hahhhh. History is elastic. I agree with this, it is an insightful post. And it amazes me...for example, when I discussed Obama just after he took power, with some very, very poor US people on another forum, they could see his policies were likely to improve their situation, being as how one was so poor he said he had no meat and no milk in the house. But still they were shouting to get rid of him and let the strong survive...even if they themselves and their loved ones would not survive under that regime and the strong they are shouting for would stamp all over them and let them die, never mind starve. It's a different mindset. Europeans have seen the filthy rich for what they are. US people have still to twig it. They haven't grasped the reality. If you have a very wealthy rich sector, some people still think it drips down sufficiently to justify allowing the rich total carte blanche. Euros have seen the rich hold onto their money and in Scotland, they ejected the entire working class from the country altogether to replace them with ****** sheep, because sheep were more profitable than farmers and whereas they might have needed farmers to fight in their defence at some points, they had sold the whole ****** country to the English in order to avoid that necessity. It's very, very hard to ever come back from that type of experience and consider "profiteers" in any other light but profane, when your people have received that kind of inhumane treatment from leaders entrusted with the well being of the community. Spanish politics has seen some really strange stuff going on though. We consider it part of mainstream developed and affluent Europe, but it is fairly recent history that you all were being controlled and socially manipulated almost in an experimental way by that loony tune Franco. After all that unrest, it is hardly even cohesive. You still have all those regions pulling against each other. It isn't a stable, shared culture, is it? There is still cultural diversity and disagreement on how to proceed?
For that I like Spain, because there is a lot of cultural diversity, however the rights is pushing to end this diversity. Spain is a multicultural country, with many regions with its uniqueness, like their own languages. I am from the island of Mallorca and my mother tongue is catalan, to give an example. Yeah there is the fights for the independence of the region with its own culture, like Basque Country, that is the best region in Spain, economically speaking, and it would be in the level of the northern countries of Europe. And Spain does not have at all a shared culture, Spain is a country formed by many cultures, with some shareness as all cultures but with their differences. For example what is portrayed internationally as traditional in Spain like bullfighting is only traditional in some parts of Spain not in all Spain. Like the flamenco and sevillanas is something from one area of Spain, Andalucia. In the rest of Spain there are complete different traditions and even working styles. For example in the marriage there are different kind of marriage according to the possession of the goods of each member. In the Peninsule, the mainland, when someone marries, all their goods are put together and when someone buy something is shared by both, the possessions are of the two members, by defect. In Balearic Islands(from where I am, Mallorca) when someone marries with other, the possessions of each are of each. What is mine is mine and what is yours is yours, and even in the marriage there will be the separation of goods. By defect. However in both sites when you marry you can choose the model. The problem of Spain, is that thing called Transition never existed. We are living a continuation of the regime of Franco with a superficial face washing. For example, now with the PP we are going back really fast, and the corruption is excessively high to be a healthy country. We have seen indults by the government of corrupt politicians condemned by the justice. It is doubtful that Urdangarin, the husband of one of the daughters of the king will be condemned by the justice, and there are proofs of possible implication in that case of the daughter of the king, but even she won't be called to declare in the trial. For me the unrest in Spain is too low, even for all what we have and the constant attack to the workers, and people of the country. Privatization of education, healthcare, reduction of investigation of science, what would be what would take us out of the crisis. If Spain continues this way Spain is doomed(I mean the people) and really hard times are coming. But instead of changing the policies that make the country go worse are continuing with that ones, ridiculous. I don't know if I answered you the questions or not.
Where the hell do you think that welfare comes from? From Santa Claus? We pay for it trough enormous tax rates and what we get in return is persistant 7% unemployment rates (just the tip of the iceberg, the real unemployment rate is much higher). I would much rather have a) a good job (which i wont if politicians keep waging class warfare on the employers and b) keep my money instead of financing a massive bureaucracy that i have no use for and which only corrupts people and makes them envious and greedy. How come a Spanish person likes leftwing politics so much when its obvious that its the left that has destroyed your country? Dont believe me? Ask yourself this: if Spain was a nightwatchman state what do you think the unemployment rate would be right now? Learn from your mistakes instead of repeating them. Im all for vacation so long as people pay for it by themselves. Ive yet to see one decent argument as to why an employer should have to pay his workers to go on a vacation. Well who do you think it was that created the international framework for global trade after ww2? Britain? Soviet Union? Germany? Im dying to hear the answer.
Now I am living in Finland. I've seen how it goes, and you are lucky. Seriously. And all that you have all your welfare, is thanks to the lefts. Do you want to end with that? A good job? Do you believe that, with the rights, without protection you would have much more precarity. The left is the one that has situated Finland where it is, the country with the best education of the world, one of the best countries to live there, if not was for the cold, and even for the cold is a good country to live there. And yes Finland has a 7% of unemployment that is really low. And if you are willing to abolish many of your rights to reduce the unemployment even having underpaid jobs, ok. But the consequences will be losing your quality of life. Ah, and I don't care to pay a lot of taxes to have what you have. The left? Sorry but we are doomed thanks to liberal(rightist) policies, not leftist. Spain is going worse and is applying the policies that are asked from the right. We are seeing how we lose rights in an incredible speed. Seriously I envy you, the people of the north, you don't know what you have. Spain is in the situation that is cause the corruption, the corruption of the main parties CiU in Catalunya, rightist party, PP in most of the communities, rightist and PSOE(theorytically leftist in practice center-right) in Andalucia in other areas. Spain has not had a leftist government from the Republic in 1931. Because that is a right of the workers. To being able to enjoy some rest. We are not machines of working and only working.
Where do jobs come from? A) from businessmen B) from the social democratic party? I think finland would be a far better country if the welfare state was reduced to something that would simply make sure that a) people dont end up on the street and b) have equal opportunities for everyone. Beyond that its a giant waste of money. The only poor people and criminals are the ones who dont work. If they were forced to go to work then they would have a far better life and society would benefit. Nordic countries are good places to live because we have good economies. Spain is a crappy place to live because it has a (*)(*)(*)(*)ty economy. I would much rather have people working in crappy jobs (for a limited time) than have 20% unemployment. And i dont doubt the corruption thing, but thats also a part of the problem. If government didnt have any power then corruption wouldnt matter. And as i said, everyone should be able to have vacations (which they would in a free market economy) but there is no need for paid vacations. Even if you believe in wealth redistribution you still shouldnt support paid vacations because thats the worst possible way to redistribute that wealth. Why pay someone to sit on his ass? xd
After WW2, People like to equalize right winged with Adolf Hitler, for this reason they are extremely reserved to vote for right wing, however this wave has gone left for decades with the result that money has been thrown away into bottomless pits and mass immigration of africans has been allowed into Europe, bringing poverty to Europe along with a massive debt. So we either goto war by going right or go into mass debt by going left, which do you choose?
Sorry, but the countries that are in the best economic situation are the ones that have followed leftist policies, that are the Nordic countries like Norway, Finland... And the ones that are in worst situation are the corrupt rightist countries of the South.
...Because the "right" screwed up the economy. Theres nothing about free market ideology that states "give tax credits builders to make housing bubles bigger" Had they just taken their dirty hands of the economy we would have a mild recession and we'd be growing our economies again. But because of the bureucrats we're now doomed to a 20 year debt slavery. .....Because they have strong economies, which would only be better without government. The reason why corruption is such a big deal in your country is because bureucrats have too much power. Power that they would not have in a free market economy.
You seem to be saying that the level of bureacracy is a bigger factor than whether a government is left or right leaning. Is that a fair assessment?
You have strong economy thanks the policies applied until now. Thanks to the equalitarian policies of the socialdemocracy. For that these countries are in a healthy situation. Policies that you despise.
The level of bureucracy/the size of the government in general is dependent on who the people vote for. I dont suppose you have any proof of this? I for one would love to hear how we've managed to turn socialism in to a money making machine.
Do you know for example that USA when gained more power was in the New Deal, that was the form to apply socialism in USA. When USA improved more was that period, with a lot of public inversion. Well, the same applies to you, you have a country with a lot of equality, lower differences between riches and poors that makes that you have a stable internal economy. Also you have a country where the main resources are controlled by the government so the profits go back to the people and not only to a few private hands. If you destroy this structure applying the rightist ideology you will have the next: - More poverty: Ok, maybe you create more jobs(in the beginning), but under underpayment conditions, while the rich will be richer, more inequality, so more injust society - More unemployment: But the consequence direct of increasing the poverty will be that you have less internal commerce it will make that the small/medium companies will close because they won't be able to support this reduction of commerce, so will cause that you will have more unemployment than before. Is pure logic that liberal policies lead to more povery and inequality.
I would think that depends on the country. Norway gives some of the best social support in the world and is one of the richest. The difference is that it has low inequality of wealth within the population. The UK created mass redundancies in the 80'S and reduced the level of benefits in the hope that people would be willing to work for any pittance in order to survive. Whole towns were allowed to go into 'managed decline' with no jobs available. Unions advised people to sign off sick so that they could collect more money and have enough to feed their family. This was the first time a) it was considered not a stigma to sign on and the first time it was felt right to 'use' the system. No financial investment was put into these areas. Britain may give out an enormous amount in benefits but it is the fourth most unequal country in the developed world. At the same time a great deal of social housing was sold and house prices and rent soared. That led to poorer workers being unable to afford housing where they lived. A benefit was introduced to sort this out. The benefit clearly helped the landlords to keep rest high but now it is being cut many people will become homeless and children need to leave their schools and I imagine people need to leave their work. Hence you can see that benefits themselves can still aid to a country being rich and having less inequality when they are given to all as in Norway or if people have no other option and live in great inequality they will of course want to find where they can get benefits to survive.
Our economy is also grossly inflated(more than 30% of BNP) by our oil industry. We have been more than lucky. Trust me, our benefits are not sustainable in the long run. almost 400 000 people on disability, alot of them young people.
I wasn't actually thinking of disability. I was thinking of the excellent services you provide, nursery education for all and does Norway not take a responsibility to make sure everyone is housed. Of course this comes out of higher taxes but is a small price to pay for a more equal and hence more harmonious society. I would think Norway has a pretty good future. She is well ahead in Green energy as well. Certainly 400,000 seems like rather a lot of people to be on disability in such a small country. Can you provide the statistics for this.
