Ah Middle 89. Are you talking about the UK? Different story. Instead of using the revenue from the oil to upgrade our Manufacturing the Thatcher government squandered it on making entire communities unemployed. Now the British people are at the mercy of Financial Services who everyone knows have no interest in giving back to a country but simply taking. The UK is as I said the fourth most unequal country in the developed world. Inequality and social mobility are back at Victorian levels. England has suffered from being asleep politically and has in reality lost it's democracy to fly by night financial movers. Scotland will likely remedy this reality by taking independence.
Oh, I agree we get alot back for our high taxes. Still, the expansion of the welfare state and the growing number of people collecting benefits is a major consern. The Norwegian official unemployment rate is artificially low, that is a fact. Norway spends more money on people not working than Spain which has an unemployment rate of more than 20%. http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/20/31/46461638.pdf This study is from 2010, even more people are on disability today. I may have exaggerated the number abit. 341600 people on disability is the latest statistics. However if you count those on temporary disability (who usually end up never returning to the workforce) we are almost in the 400k's. In total, 22.6% of population are on some form of government benefits. My point is, this can not continue. We are in a unique position because of our enormeous oil revenues compared to our population. As population increases, especially from 3rd world immigration, and the oil production comes to a halt, Norway will certainly have to scale back the welfare state or face economic disaster.
Spain does not have a welfare system like Norway. You can't compare both. In Spain the welfare is a (*)(*)(*)(*). Spain is an absolute failure. Told from a Spanish. And with the new government we will go even worse, I would say that we could reach 30% of unemployment
Right, okay. First of all, the new deal: Had it not been for government intervention (first by hoover, smoot-hawley act etc) we wouldnt even remember the great depression. The unemployment rate in America rose to 9% and then came down to 6%. It only rose to double digits after hoover decided he had to do something to get re-elected. A stable internal economy because of wealth redistribution? I have no idea what to say to this because it makes no sense. And secondly, resources in Finland arent controlled by the government. Nordic countries are remarkably liberal in this sense. We have free economies, we just distribute the wealth (also one of the reasons we do so well) If it were up to me we would have a negative income tax = having a (*)(*)(*)(*)ty job would be less painfull. But we should liberalise the job market even without it and destroy the unions best we can.
Ok, if you are able to do this don't come later protesting that you've lost everything, that you don't have rights, or anything, you deserved this. Now Spain voted the right, do you know what? Even with the unofficial right we were suffering really harmful policies against the workers, with the official we are even worse. Everyday I am more decided to abandon Spain forever, because there is no hope. And all that thanks to rightist policies. Then you ask why do we vote leftist? Because the right is harming the workers, increasing the corporation profits... And Finland have many resources in the hand of the government, for example alcohol
Sure welfare in spain is worse than in norway, thats not the point though. The point is that we spend an enormeous amount of money on people who could work, but choose to contribute nothing to society. That undermines the foundation of the welfare state which is to help those who can not take care of themselves. If you take money from people who are working and give them to people who are not working, dont be surprised if you end up with more people not working. Dont tell me that all of the 350000 people on disability in this country are legitimately sick. It makes no sense that a country like norway has more sick people than any other european country. Our benefits are so high, that in some instances it actually pays better to collect them than take a low income job. Not sustainable in any way, shape or form.
LOLZ, this is what the left wings always accuse the right wings off, after their years of depression causing money policy that throw away money into bottomless pits, then people vote for right, and then left accuses right for the devastation that they caused themselves, why did you think people voted for right? Its because left wasted it on welfare for immigrants and other leftist hobbies to begin with.
Could be , but i don't follow Irish politics since im not from that country, and the politics that i have seen from Ireland was so appalling that i zapped it away ASAP, but what i myself actually meant to say is that where i am from they tried the same thing on blaming right for the devastation on what left caused, and left had been in power for many years. They wasted gas benefits on welfare, they let immigrants in and let the rest of the tax payers pay for them. But worst of all is that no one of left or right says: Lets change our monetary system, lets do something about the pyramid games bankers are playing. To stop this system from going down the drain even further. There's social unrest and WW3 knocking on your door right there, and to the bankers a war is just a reset button, so they can do it all over again once WW3 is over.
Then the problem is of the company that is offering a wage too low. I don't see the problem in rejecting underpaid jobs. And Norway gives enough protection to the workers to permit them to get well paid jobs. That's good.
Neither do I, but the problem starts when those who have rejected the 'underpaid' jobs expect other people to fund their lifestyles.
Fianna Fail were in government from 1987-2011, for much of that time with the even further right Progressive Democrats. since the foundation of the party they have been the government or the largest coalition partner for 61 of the last 79 years. We have never had a leftist government so it is difficult to pin our debt on the left.
What is unacceptable is having to accept underpaid jobs. If that goes the quality of life goes down and the slavery close.
Thats coming from a man who's fleeing his own countrys 20% unemployment rate. Try to understand this now. Prosperity is not a political decision. Its something you earn. If you try to do that, you end up with 20% unemployment. Someone in your situation should be aware of this.
Do you know why Spain has 20% unemployment rate? Spain is a country with already the lowest wages in the European Union, with an increase of poverty as ever. Do you think that in this situation the Spanish people can even accept lower wages? The problem are the corporations that don't invest and that Spain has lived in the construction instead of the industry. And now the rightist party pretends to continue on it, construction and cut more in science, the future of a country. LOL
Either you work your way up or keep destroying your country. As i said, prosperity is not a political decision. And why do you think the corporations dont invest? Because they hate poor people? They cant operate in that climate. Businesses want freedom first, predictability second - two things the socialist state doesnt offer. The best thing that could happen to this continent is massive free market reform. It is because of people like you, just like it was in Britain in the 70s, that this continent is doomed to fail. If only there were enough thatchers to go around then perhaps we could finally get rid of the socialist cancer.
I am not able to understand how someone want to get rid of the prosperity and go back 100 years ago, when the workers did not have any right. I don't understand that, really. I am not able how someone want to go to the XIX century. And that is what means electing the right wing, the free market theorics. And sorry, but you are completely wrong, and more I am not able to understand how one living in one of the most prosperous countries of the world wants to get rid of all that prosperity. For me is impossible to understand. I don't understand why people want to recover the slavery? Yes, that means going back to the free market of the XIX century. And Thatcher was an authoritarian that removed many rights of the workers. I don't understand how want someone that is really close to the dictatorship and to the fascism. Only an employer without heart can defend this :-S
There are things that undermine a society, and there are things that build up a society, everything that undermines a society has got to be thrown out of the window, and everything that builds up your society needs to stay. You can have a winning horse, but if its constantly bleeding to death it will fall down, remember no matter how big your titanic is, if it has a hole in it, it will sink, put any political 'tag' on it as you see fit, but if the leaks in the ship aren't fixed, the boat will sink , regardless which political party is steering it. Take our monetary system for example, its a bloody pyramid game, those leeching bankers are corrupting our system at the cost of the common man. Victimized as a sheep send to the slaughter we are being withdone from our fur, meat and bones, it doesn't benefit us at all, this is why we need to talk to the banks and create a different monetary system that will benefit everyone. Same with welfare, if people corrupt the system by leeching on it, the common tax payer will suffer. This can actually kill the entire system. This is why what is happening now in our economies is so dangerous. We need to acknowledge that danger and do something about it.
When you apply for a job in Finland and the employer gives you an offer how often is that offer above the minimum set for your profession by the union? I would assume quite often. Why is that? Because the employer needs you as much as you need him. And everytime your employer is prepared to offer you more than the minimum it means that the union/social democrats havent done anything to help you. The unions or the left didnt give you the rights you enjoy. Those rights are the result of strong economies. The only thing that can help a worker is full employment and high growth: two things that socialism prevents from happening. Thatcher saved, not only the british economy, but britain itself from a bunch of treasonous communists who wanted to destroy a once great nation.
That is ignorance. The left gave you the rights that you have now. The left is who gave you the working day of 8 hours. The left is the one that gave you the welfare that you enjoy now. The left is who gave you all this. If corporations offer good jobs now, is thanks to the pressure of unions, and remember that Finland has strong unions. That gives greater protection to the workers and more fear to the corporations to offer things that would be unacceptable for the workers. If you are not able to see that the social movements and the government under that pressure had a main paper in make strong the Nordic economy you are ignoring the history. The rights that Finland enjoys is basically for the fear of a revolution. Yes, a fear of communist revolution gave what you have now. That is the reality. And you need to learn a bit about Thatcher, and how made worse the situation of the workers, removed their rights. No, Thatcher didn't do anything good. Thatcher was a tyranian woman.
So what you're saying is, unless government or unions do something about it, people have to work for slave wages? ...What happens when 2 employers want the same worker? Do they mud wrestle over him? Or do they try to outbid eachother by offering the worker more pay? What happens when theres full employment, but a businessman wants to expand his business? Does he burn down the nearest business to make those workers come to him or does he offer them better pay? Do you understand where im going with this? The employers dont have all the power. They too have to compete for labour.
Still in fairyland there, Munqi? Different incident... That is one well evidenced example of exactly how the most successful businesses can attract new labour. In the words of the people who "attracted" a relative of mine, "you can sell to us now and come and work as managing director of our companies, or wait for a year and own half of nothing".
