Why do Republicans lobby on behalf of people who live like royalty?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Durandal, Dec 13, 2018.

  1. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    This is just the “everybody is doing it so it’s ok” argument second graders use on their mothers. It’s dressed up in pseudo intellectual clothing but it’s meaning is equivalent.

    It’s also the basis of pure democracy. It sounds nice but it’s a disaster when applied to the real world.
    I’m not sure of your meaning here. I don’t know why I would offer anyone money for no reason. If Donald had a burger he hadn’t eaten yet :) and I was hungry I’d give him five for it.

    If I knew someone was hungry and didn’t have a five I’d take them to the burger joint and buy them a burger.

    I’m not going to burgle someone’s car or snatch a purse to give five bucks to the hungry guy. I don’t see how this is complicated.
     
  2. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    Politicians shill for the wealthy because the wealthy give the money. And it isn't just Republicans it's Democrats too
     
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  3. Jiminy

    Jiminy Well-Known Member

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    This is what right-wing socialists do...........
    Trump family created fake company in the 90’s to pad building costs and jack up rents — and they’re still cashing in today: report

    According to a report in the New York Times, Donald Trump and his siblings created a fake maintenance company in the ’90s which created bogus invoices to pad expenses, duck taxes and inflate the rent of their father’s properties.

    In a deep dive, the Times said that in 1992, Trump and his family set up a phony company called All County Building Supply & Maintenance which did nothing but pay vendors — and then was reimbursed by their father, Fred Trump at a higher rate. The report states that money above and beyond what was warranted was then split between the kids allowing them to duck paying taxes on the excess cash.
    [​IMG]
     
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  4. Sanskrit

    Sanskrit Well-Known Member

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    I find a nice chunk of peace of mind every time I expose a LW-Complex lie narrative. And the continued insults noted, same old same old whenever LW get the factual beatdown they always do.

    Remember folks, ALWAYS have a WRITTEN RECORD of ANY discussion attempted with a Leftist.
     
  5. Jiminy

    Jiminy Well-Known Member

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    This is what right-socialists do...................
    PHOENIX SUNS’ OWNER ROBERT SARVER WANTS THE CITY TO PAY FOR UPGRADES OR HE WILL RELOCATE TO LAS VEGAS OR SEATTLE

    thesource.com/2018/12/13/phoenix-suns-ow...
     
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  6. Sanskrit

    Sanskrit Well-Known Member

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    The topic of this thread is who supports, and who is supported by, the political parties in this country. My response to your post is directly to that topic. Try to follow along.
     
  7. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    Actually study after study shows that Trump supporters are the least educated. It is the people on the “fringe left” Who are actually fighting for Trump supporters to get more because they are in aware that they’re getting screwed. I love how everyone puts down the Hollywood crowds but yet it is you Republicans who vote for them and put them in office when they’re not qualified like trump. you vote for Reagan and Schwarzenegger and Thompson and sonny Bono and Clint Eastwood. They’re all show biz people
     
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  8. Daggdag

    Daggdag Well-Known Member

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    The far right have been brain washing them for years to through Fox and Rush, that all wealthy people earned their money through hard work (even though the majority of billionaires did so by manipulating fiances and didn't do anything to actually earn it), and that if someone is poor, it's because they are lazy and stupid.
     
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  9. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    I never said one side is all good and one side is all bad. Please don’t project your extremism on me .All I did was present a fact that both Clinton and Obama had to undo the economic catastrophe they inherited. If you want to pretend that they don’t exist ,be my guest. I also find your silliness that those of us on the left want to take over where mom and dad left off to protect and support everyone. You are speaking like a true extremist claiming that “nobody has to be individually strong and independent.” That is too childish for me to even address. I guess I can turn it around and see your belief that help is bad . People have been helped and that is a good thing. I guess you support people who inherit millions and see them as better than those who are born into poverty
    Nobody is professing socialism as the cure all. But I guess you don’t like public education, public roads, police officers, firefighters parks… Way too socialistic. Or so you just like to pick and choose, I have to assume that you are pro choice
    You seem to deny that some people are born with disadvantages. I married such a man who came from the worst poverty I have ever seen only to retire as a vice president of a brokerage house in his 40s. He was the first one to tell you that had he not been white and had he not been male he would never have gotten to where he was
     
  10. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Probably because they aren't jealous of the wealthy like you are.
     
  11. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    Of course they’re not jealous of the wealthy, they are too dumb to realize that they are getting screwed.
    My husband made a lot of money and we paid a lot of taxes and it didn’t affect our standard of living one bit
     
  12. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    Plenty of democrats who got behind $4T in free money being given to the wall street Titans via the FED and QE.
    Plenty advocating ZIRP for years allowing the Wall St titans to make enormous amounts of money on carry trades while pensioners and depositors made **** for years.

    Yeah, it's just Republicans. Silly
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2018
  13. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There must be a line in judgment. It's like calling everything grey- from light grey to dark grey, with everything in between being negotiable. It simply doesn't work. Even if the field is all grey, one must draw a line that divides acceptable from unacceptable, what works from what won't. Same as if the field was black and white. I'm in favor of everybody being strong and independent, and for that matter, financially stable or even wealthy- but those are things that cannot be gifts. The line here is that this is not something that society owes to the individual. The people are society, and it will be no better than we make it. The better we make ourselves, the better, kinder and safer society becomes. Surely you can understand that if a drug addict is bumming money for the next fix (of course holding a hungry sign) and you provide it, you have enabled his continued addiction. You have helped him remove the pain of the moment- but you have insured it will be worse in the future, and you have NOT helped him, you have harmed him.

    Anything that prevents a person from controlling their own destiny is negative for both the person and society- and controlling your own destiny requires something that society cannot do for you; it can only be done within the person themselves. It requires the acceptance of responsibility for yourself, across the board. Anytime we "help" someone evade that, we have enabled them to continue to live in dependence. Consider this somewhat like tough love- you have to know when what you do can help, and when it will hinder. We are a generous people that support vast charities, and readily reach out to people in need- but we are very poor at recognizing when it is really appropriate and will help.

    I've spent thousands of hours teaching the principles of personal values and critical thinking- to school teachers, to college students, to recovering drug addicts, to psychologists, to executives of fortune 500 companies. I have a little experience to back up what I'm saying here. The objective must be to help people find the capacity to be independent, not to extend dependence. IF you want anything good for people- you couldn't wish dependence on any of them. We can't make them independent, all we can do is point out the way- but we can make them dependent, simply by providing an easy way around responsibility. Human weakness will usually choose that first.
     
  14. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    I grew up probably like your husband. Dirt poor. Even though we knew and socialized with some obscenely wealthy people I never heard my parents complain or say a negative thing about anyone’s economic status.

    I was out of college, working my *ss off, and close to 30 years old before I realized my parents chose to be poor. My dad had the skills that he could have moved us as little as 40 miles or as much as states away and instantly moved into middle or upper middle class.

    Instead they stayed in the place they knew was best for my brother and I. And they were happy.

    I’ve come to the same conclusions they did even though I could have retired at 40 but love what I do too much to quit. Life is about choices. Nearly anyone can make good choices and become middle class. Many can be “wealthy” if they want to. Very, very few can make good choices, work hard and remain poor against their will.

    Nobody is being screwed. If anyone is being screwed it’s those that buy the idea the deck is stacked against them so they shouldn’t try.

    And my melanin levels or sex have nothing to do with my success. In fact if I were darker or female there would have been government programs to grease the skids so to speak.

    Everyone’s experience is different but I believe the idea some less wealthy people support conservatives etc. because they are dumb is... well... dumb.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2018
  15. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    Interestin that you teach the “principle of personal values to school teachers and college students. “ I teach workshops in prejudice awareness and one of the prejudices is stereotyping and that is exactly what you seem to do doing. You are implying that people who get help are not controlling their own destinies and you are saying that society does it for them. You are saying that these people do not accept responsibility for themselves because they get some help. From what it sounds like you perpetuate prejudice.One of the prejudices I talk about is unknowledged prejudice. Another is sanctioned prejudice ...Sounds to me like you have both. I probably have as much experience as you but we obviously come from different places. Helping people can indeed make them independent. Let’s look at college students.Do you think scholarships harm them or help them?Do you think mothers who work two jobs and get food stamps are bad people? I hope you are aware that you are overgeneralizing which leads to bigotry.
    You are making poor people sound like it is all their fault and it is therefore OK to look down on them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2018
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  16. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    No you don’t come from a place like my husband or my students for that matter. Where my husband lived he never socialized or even knew wealthy people . my husband couldn’t dream of going to college and my students don’t have the money They hope for scholarships or loans that will be on their shoulders for years . Do you think my husband and Donald Trump had the same advantages? Yes there are some people who believe the deck is stacked against them… And for many it is. When I was a girl growing up the deck was stacked against me as well. You act as though we all have the same opportunities when we don’t.
    The fact that you don’t think your gender or race have anything to do with success and you believe that it would be better if you were darker or female shows how little you know or should I say how much you took for granted. I guess you’re just another one of those white guys who feels he’s being discriminated against.
    My husband retired from Wall Street in his 40s because of what it was becoming. It was all about money.
     
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  17. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Well I certainly don’t disagree with you on Wall Street. :)

    Fact: I worked my way through college at under minimum wage. My oppressed female wife worked her way through private high school and college often earning many times the wages I did.

    Fact: My first two career choices were unavailable to me BECAUSE of my whiteness and gender. Yes I was discriminated against. It’s a fact. But I didn’t let it affect me. I took my third choice and succeeded.

    Fact: We don’t all have the same opportunities. Many of my schoolmates had much more initial financial backing and educational opportunities. Some are broke. I’m tired of excuses. I’m all for helping those starting at the bottom but helping starts with showing them the positive not the negative.

    I’m assuming the disadvantaged kids you are referencing are inner city youth. In the spirit of this thread I think it’s important to keep in mind who is responsible for their plight and why. It isn’t conservatives or dumb conservative voters.
     
  18. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I also not the one feeling entitled to other peoples money, which is what this topic is about.

    If people went constantly trying to take my money that resulted from risk and sacrifice, I wouldn't have the need to get on this forum and defend it.

    Instead, you want me to just shut up and sit down while liberal progressives pilfer my wallet.

    Work hard, great! That has nothing to do with theft for social justice non-sense which was my point.

    I never said I didnt want to pay taxes. Stop putting words in my mouth and then argue against it.

    Also, I adopted two kids, so the rest of your points are mute.. but they are also BS. The amount of taxes to fund education for YOUR kids, by people without kids far outweighs any contribution you would have to make to fund somebody else retirements.

    But.. nice try.
     
  19. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If you have no interest in providing logical, critical, debate.. let me know so I can simply put you on ignore.
     
  20. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Right. You want to debate a topic that affects 100% of the population, and institute policy based on "issues" that make up about 2% of the population. 98%be damned.

    We need to have discussions in the grey area and avoid the black and white fringes that solve nothing.
     
  21. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Our wages, and especially our wealth is not solely dependent on "work". Its also based on choices, risk, sacrifice and luck.

    Liberals dont like to talk about those things.
     
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  22. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    2%.. you're delusional. This is a real problem today and it's only getting bigger. People like you will wake up when there's a ******n revolution, why wait, talk about it.... get politicians off their asses to do something
     
  23. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Simple question.

    Do you believe some people being ultra wealthy hampers or prevents others from getting out of poverty?
     
  24. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting point. Sixty percent of my property tax goes to education in my state. I pay more in property tax than living expenses. I don’t have kids. If I did they would never set foot in a government school. The closest I came to government school in my education was two years at state University. As you can imagine I don’t enjoy writing properly tax checks.

    I’ve been pretty successful at opting out of SS. I know I won’t see a dime from it so contribute as little as possible.
     
  25. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    What career was unavailable to you because of your race and gender?
    I have a hard time believing that. And making your wife sound like she was the rule rather than the exception is also silly
    Do you see what you are saying?Whether you are aware of it or not you are lumping poor people together and making an assumption that they don’t want to do anything positive. This is called bigotry
     

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