Why do you believe in God ?

Should Dylan Roof die at the hands of the Federal Government in Indiana?

 

No...I don’t believe in killing people to show the killing is wrong

 

Well that shows how a person does not believe the justice system is just and delivers justice to the right people. Runs counter to what most people believe as well.

 

Because PRIDE is a sin ?


Some Christians think women should defer to males......."the man is the head of the family"....I know the JW's and Catlicks do....



and JW's, the Amish, Catholic nuns wrap up in skirty things that cover them ...wait ! so do many other women....

.....and look how long it took to have female priests....where are those female bishops and Popes?? NO respect for women there!!

 

That is the tactic.. obscure any points with barrages of ad hominem deflection, and whatever point that might be there is lost in the deluge.

 

Can you show how someone, anyone , is forcing you to post? Seems the desperation is on the other foot but then I learned that you have separate rules for others

Yes, everyone is desperate for attention but you....

You can't let this go, can you?

 

What "church " is that ? The one with a female Pope and thousands of women saying Mass?....



BTW , WHERE is that "Church". ?





I think I got your message...is it that old crap about how if women are treated really badly somewhere then women who are only treated a little badly should be grateful?

Is that your point?

 

Renee said: ↑
No...I don’t believe in killing people to show the killing is wrong

No, it means ""I don’t believe in killing people to show the killing is wrong""...it does NOT mean what YOU spin it to mean...

So? Even if you knew what "most people believe" (and you don't)...so?

 

What is your belief? I really don’t expect the justice system to a
Ways deliver what I consider justice because it contradicts probably would you consider justice. This is what it democracy is about

 

Thanks. If I can proffer a suggestion - when talking about extremism within Islam the proper term to use is the term "Islamist" this is someone who hates individual rights and freedoms/Liberty. An Islamist wants to force their religious beliefs on others through physical violence (Law).

Not all Muslims are Islamist so this avoids generalization by using the term "radical Islam". Syria for example is a "Secular" Muslim nation. Syria has Christian churches and Assad has Christian generals in his army. Women wear skirts and proper bathing suits. There is drinking and dancing in bars, it is not a theocracy and there is no strict sharia, no killing people for adultery, being gay or apostasy.

This is why our support for the Islamist jihadist rebel opposition in Syria was so disgusting.
It is the one's fighting for Assad that are the moderates. The Islamist Jihadists hate "Secularism" and in fact this was the whole call to Jihad - the reason why they fight. They want to turn Syria into a Sharia Theocracy.

The same problem exists withing Christianity. There are extremists - such as religious right fundamentalists - who want to force their religious beliefs on others using physical violence (Law).

It is wrong however to characterize all of Christianity on the basis of these extremists.

 

Yes .. which was the point of the post. The poster then gave a nice summary to which a coherent response was possible

 

IMO, it's a Narrative thing. There are certain stereotypes or caricatures that the anti Christian left likes to promote, and no amount of evidence can resist that narrative.

In most of the public arena.. every internet forum, the media, academia, movies, entertainment etc, Christians... even patriotic American Christians, are pigeonholed as bigoted, racist, anti science, anti freedom, wanting a theocracy, and a few other attributes that are incongruous with the American ideal.

It is an absurd narrative, with no corroborating evidence , but that never deters the propagandists.

I spend most of my forum posting, it seems, defending from accusations of this narrative. But repeating myself over and over is a waste of time and bandwidth. I cannot resist the Narrative, so i may as well embrace it.

Yes. My true intentions are exposed. I really want all threads to be where i attack those who believe differently than me. I want a theocracy, where the old testament law is the same as civil law. I want all contrary beliefs about the nature of man and the universe banned, and only my personal beliefs taught or expressed. I want all science textbooks censored, only teaching things that favor my beliefs.

I don't want open dialogue, but strict conformity to rigid, narrow biblical interpretations that i decide. I don't want freedom of conscience, but mandated beliefs, reflecting MY beliefs, only. Science should be banned. Free expression should be banned. Anyone disagreeing with me should be banned.

There. That fits the narrative better. And since this is how my every post is interpreted, i may as well post it myself, and save the Militant anti-Christians from having to retype and reword my posts to fit the narrative. I may as well show this consideration, since i am trapped inside this strawman, and can't get out.

 

It seems you get lumped into a group, the exact same way you just lumped some anti Christian left group.
Are there some who are anti christian? Sure. But I'd guess they are anti religion, or all for religious freedoms of each individual. So I doubt they are anti christian, but anti any religion who is trying to impose beliefs through the gov't with laws and so forth.
Most will let you be christian as much as they will let a muslim practice Islam. So far, not much from the Islam world is trying to make laws to force everyone to live and believe as they do, in the USA.

 

If you promote the narrative, you join with the propagandists, whatever your religious beliefs. There is definitely a groupthink element, and any smeared by the narrative are vilified, regardless of their actual opinions, which are ignored in favor of the narrative.

It is a similar tactic of dehumanization.. portraying caricatures, rather than responding to arguments.. much as you do here, talking about these 'Christians!', who want to impose old testament law, and a religious theocracy, with jimmy swaggart as pope, or something.. where are these evil people?

Oh yeah.. that's me! I would have never known it, were it not for the continual reminder and straw man of my actual beliefs..

 

Does this mean you will be tolerant of my views from now forward?

 

Where are these people?
Did you miss the gay marriage fight of a few years ago?

 

Group think is a great descriptor of the religious right. While these folks call themselves Christian, they do not follow or understand some of the most basic teachings of Jesus.

In addition - political activism by the religious right is on the basis of making law ( forcing religious beliefs on others through physical violence).

 

Absolutely!

As a groupthink labelled, card carrying member of the religious right, i submit to the narrative. What you describe is EXACTLY what we want!

I want a theocracy, where the old testament law is the same as civil law. I want all contrary beliefs about the nature of man and the universe banned, and only my personal beliefs taught or expressed. I want all science textbooks censored, only teaching things that favor my beliefs.

I don't want open dialogue, but strict conformity to rigid, narrow biblical interpretations that i decide. I don't want freedom of conscience, but mandated beliefs, reflecting MY beliefs, only. Science should be banned. Free expression should be banned. Anyone disagreeing with me should be banned.

And, i will lie, kill, or steal, to see this agenda through.. nothing is beneath me, in pursuing this goal.

I must admit, that is a very scary narrative, that the left has built up to vilify the evil right wing Christians. If i weren't already one of them, I'd fear and hate them too!

 

I did forget..

I did not embrace homophobia! How could i miss that one?

..unless you were talking about a marital conflict between gays...

 

Well .. many in Christianity hate them as well

It is easy when there are folks like this wandering around - and you have various in congress following them around to "kill the gays" conferences.



This is not something the left has "built up" ... These nut jobs speak for themselves.

The bottom line is that when you make laws based on religious belief - this "is" by definition theocratic. What is the difference between this and Sharia other than nothing ?

My issue is that whether it is on the basis of religious or secular ideology (such as utilitarianism) .. I do not like ideologies that seek to violate and/or undermine the main principle on which this nation was founded - respect for individual liberty that Individual liberty is "Above" the legitimate authority of Gov't and that the authority of Gov't comes from "we the people/consent of the governed" as opposed to "divine right/God" as was the case in the past.

Many Christians (probably more than half) agree with separation of Church and State and there are very good reasons for this.

The Founders agreed with this - as did Jesus. The religious right is following some evil ideology based on an evil humans false and self serving interpretation of scripture.

The fact of the matter is that Evangelicalism - and in particular fundamentalist evangelicals, Pentecostals and the various fundamentalist flavor of the day .. are outcasts within Christianity at large and in some cases (the ones that engage in speaking in tongues) heretical.

 

True and there is a real campaign to take the worst of Christianity and smear an entire religion with it and ironically, these are many of the same people that scream the loudest when they sense Islam is getting the same treatment.

Maybe they are internalizing their own guilt.

 

Yup .. give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to me what is mine. The rock on which Jesus based his teachings was the Golden Rule - "do unto others as you would have done to you/treat others as you would be treated"

Jesus - probably realizing that he was dealing with the ignorant raging masses - restated this rule a number of times. "Love neighbor as self", "Judge not lest you be Judged", "take log out of own eye before picking speck out of brothers" , "Let ye who is without sin cast the first rock" ... and so on.

So ... If you do not want others forcing their religious or personal beliefs on you through physical violence (Law), do not do the same to others. Live and let live.

I do not care much for Biden and the Dem's but - in a rare moment of enlightenment he said this during his debate with Ryan during the Presidential election.

Biden was asked about abortion. He responded "I am a Catholic and as such do not agree with abortion but, I do not believe in forcing my personal religious beliefs on others"

Slam dunk .. bang on.. correct a mundo.

 

Well put by Biden but I fear he's being disingenuous here. He's doing a bit more as a stalwart party member, NARAL supporter and Vice President to a solid pro choice president than just not forcing his views on others. http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1849140_1849287_1849219,00.html

He is proactively promoting abortion, despite his words and his voting record proves that.

 

What are you talking about ? Biden supports abortion rights for women. This is pro-choice.

Biden stated exactly this when he said "I do not believe in forcing my religious beliefs on others" in relation to abortion.

This means one is against the anti-abortion crowd who want to force their religious beliefs on others through law.

Belief in individual liberty is not belief freedom do to things - only if you agree with them. Everyone believes in that. Belief in liberty is belief in the freedom for people to do things you disagree with.

 

That's precisely how I referred to President Obama....as a pro choice president. How did that get by you?

Yes. This is again, exactly my point. His voting record and support of NARAL indicates he's not pro life at all, except perhaps when it comes time for him to get re elected to the senate. He doesn't force his religious beliefs on others because it seems he has very little of them.

There are certain things that a decent non barbaric society does not
count as a liberty and the taking of innocent lives, both young and old, is one of them. I consider myself to be pro life, basically, and I haven't seen the inside of a church for decades (except for weddings of friends and relatives).