Why does Government bother collecting "taxes"?

Discussion in 'Finance' started by Robert, May 14, 2016.

  1. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    This question is not silly. Some assume Government will stop but for tax collection.

    But Government supplies money.

    This paper explains it.

    http://grandfather-economic-report.com/tax-history.htm

    Now, you will note that this is the very theme one gets from Democrats all day long. A theme we republicans believe is flat out wrong.

    - - - Updated - - -

    http://grandfather-economic-report.com/tax-history.htm
     
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  2. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    http://grandfather-economic-report.com/tax-history.htm
     
  3. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    http://grandfather-economic-report.com/tax-history.htm
     
  4. jdog

    jdog Banned

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    Taxes are the mechanism by which the establishment controls the working class.
    Ruml explained why taxes are not needed for the support of government, and this knowledge is elementary to anyone who understands modern monetary theory.
    The fact is that wealth is not money, wealth is labor. Labor is what produces everything. People have understood that truth for thousands of years and it is the reason that the institution of slavery was created to begin with.
    This country was created as a place of liberty where a man could (unlike Europe) realize the fruits of his own labor. In fact the cornerstone of liberty is the ownership of ones person and the concept that if you are truly free then you own your labor and thereby the fruits of your labor.
    From before the ink was dry on the Constitution, greedy men were conspiring to find ways to get around the rights recognized in the Constitution and to enslave the people of America for their own benefit.
    The forefathers did such an admirable job of constructing the Constitution it took the wealthy elite over 130 years of careful planning and manipulation to get around its laws and finally indenture the American people to slavery by implementing the Income Tax Act. The impact of income taxes cannot be underestimated because few people truly understand their impact. While we all understand the degree payroll taxes decrease our income, we usually do not realize the impact they have on the cost of goods we need to purchase with our after tax money. This is what is known as "indirect tax". Stop and think about how many times a product is taxed before you finally purchase it retail. It was taxed as a base material if it was mined, it was taxed when that base material was processed, it was taxed when it was made into a product, it was taxed every time it was transported. This is why small changes in the income tax can make big changes in the overall economy.
    The bottom line is that we have a system of wage slavery in which the workers income is closely controlled to ensure you will spend your entire useful life working to make your employer and the government and the banks the benefactor's of your lifetime of labor.....
     
  5. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    Sure. I agree.

    Except for wealth. We differ on that by a mile.

    Keep up the good posting.
     
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  6. Blinda Vaganto

    Blinda Vaganto Well-Known Member

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    I don't think this is wise to trust goverment to print as much money as it wants.
     
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  7. Econ4Every1

    Econ4Every1 Well-Known Member

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    So government spending is the "faucet" and Taxes are the "drain"?
     
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  8. atheiststories

    atheiststories Active Member

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    Arguments like this are always brought forward by people who have spent most of their lives soaking up public resources.
     
  9. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is an excellent question......
    my off the cuff answer would be to create an illusion of being in financial trouble in order to keep
    an ignorant population of people unaware of what is possible in theory.

    I would love to get your reaction to this discussion Robert?


    http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=496787&page=2&p=1067151112#post1067151112

    Thread: Proposed Green Party Volunteerism Hour or Dollar alternative currency.


    ....
     
  10. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes......
    that is a good way to put it......
    but Econ4Every1..... can you answer this question put forward by three Canadian economists as to why
    economists complain about the wage push on inflation...... and seem to ignore the push that high interest rates
    have on inflation?

    Interest rates seem to have roughly a five hundred percent greater net inflationary push than
    increasing wages do.

    https://haroldchorneyeconomist.com/...nd-the-rate-of-inflation-canada-1950-to-1989/

    Monetized government Debt as a percentage of the broadly defined money supply and the rate of inflation Canada 1950 to 1989
    Back in the 1990's they worded this in a way that is even more clear.

    http://www.michaeljournal.org/artic...ce-our-country-debt-free-say-three-economists

    The Bank of Canada Must Finance our Country, Debt-Free Say Three Economists

     
  11. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Brilliantly stated!

    I hope you don't mind if I quote you into some other discussions that I have going on this general idea?


    http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=496117&p=1067151166#post1067151166
    Nova Scotia Needs Innovative Education Reform
     
  12. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    Let me hit the topic of taxes.

     
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  13. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Impressive!

    Ok.... here is an alternative to an income tax.......
    at least for one State.


    http://www.politicalforum.com/polit...-could-utah-state-dollar-save-usa-dollar.html

    Could a Utah State Dollar save the USA Dollar?

    ..............

    A Utah State Dollar or Hour......
    backed by volunteerism..... that organizes and focuses volunteerism....
    that is directed toward turning the residents of Utah into actresses and actors.....
    playing the role of themselves........

    .... the foundation of this could be that human life, and animal life as well,
    would have essentially infinite value.... to a being
    who has invested infinite time in the past laying the foundation for
    life as we know it......


    http://www.politicalforum.com/science/498508-dr-chaim-tejman-deserves-origin-life-prize.html

    Dr. Chaim Tejman deserves Origin of Life Prize.


    ............
     
  14. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    During the American depression of the 30s-40s, Utah did have their own currency. I believe it worked fine for them.

    I like the idea of getting rid of the 16th amendment and that means if incomes are not taxes, something else will end up being taxes. I advocate the sales tax. No tax accountant needed nor books of record to pay taxes. Books of record would be used to manage companies. Income taxes mean Government snoops into your earnings. They keep track of you quite easily like that. They know and use your social security number. This number is tantamount to the number tattooed on the Jews during the holocaust.
     
  15. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Since your source is absolutely and completely incorrect on the above very basic fact, I'll reject and bypass the whole thing.

    "In Marxist philosophy the bourgeoisie is the social class that came to own the means of production during modern industrialization and whose societal concerns are the value of property and the preservation of capital, to ensure the perpetuation of their economic supremacy in society." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bourgeoisie
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2017
  16. Econ4Every1

    Econ4Every1 Well-Known Member

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    I think you may be misinterpreting what Ruml meant when he said that, at best, and quote mining at worst.

    Yes, Ruml said that taxes aren't needed to fund the government, something I agree with, but that's not the same as saying taxes aren't necessary. Ruml went on to say:

    "What Taxes Are Really For

    Federal taxes can be made to serve four principal purposes of a social and economic character. These purposes are:

    1. As an instrument of fiscal policy to help stabilize the purchasing power of the dollar;


    2. To express public policy in the distribution of wealth and of income, as in the case of the progressive income and estate taxes;

    3. To express public policy in subsidizing or in penalizing various industries and economic groups;

    4. To isolate and assess directly the costs of certain national benefits, such as highways and social security.

    In the recent past, we have used our federal tax program consciously for each of these purposes. In serving these "

    Here is the original article

    As far as money not being wealth, I take your point, but the reality is that as long as people value money, it is wealth. Now if you're saying that money's value isn't intrinsic, well, sure, I agree. All wealth is subject to the context of the people doing the valuing.

    This reminds me of an episode of the Twilight Zone I enjoyed as a kid. Four (or five I can't remember) robbers steal a bunch of gold and hide out in a cave. They have sleep chambers and plan to sleep for 100 years and wake up free to spend their loot. But when they wake up, the truck they used to get to the extremely isolated cave won't start. The rest of the episode has them turning on one another and in the end, two are left dragging 100's of lbs of gold through the desert to find help. One of them ends up swapping whole gold bars for the last sips of water they have left between them. When there is only one person left who is on the verge of death a couple drives up next to him to help. He holds out a bar of gold offering to trade it for a drink of water and promptly collapses, dead from thirst. The couple, after trying to help the man who has died, look at each other in befuddlement as the man remarks to his wife, "That's strange, did you see how he offered that gold to us like it was valuable? It was like he didn't realize that we discovered how to turn lead into gold...Hmmm"

    Value is subjective to those doing the valuing and the conditions in which things are valuable can and often do depend on the environment.

    If certain conditions change, there are situations in which the dollar won't be valuable and isn't considered wealth.
     
  17. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  18. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    I will just bypass you.
     
  19. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    -and remain wrong just the same. Marx did not identify the Bourgeoisie as the middle class. Certain members of the middle class who own small businesses he identified as "the petty bourgeoisie" because they owned some small means of production and may or may not have employed workers.
     
  20. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    I realize you are thrilled by Marx but you caught me by surprise since you replied to me as if I said something you needed to refute. I never posted what you replied to. I am not arguing what Marx called anybody.
     
  21. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    Like anyone who owns equities (directly or via a mutual fund/ETF) in a 401k or IRA? So, like, everyone?
     
  22. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    You didn't post the first post, #1, with your name on it in which was quoted "Many people wrongly believe that Marxism is a battle of the poor against the rich. In reality, it is a campaign against the middle class - the class that Karl Marx called the bourgeoisie"?

    I think you did.
     
  23. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    The "owners" to which he refers are those who control it. Your proxy vote doesn't control anything.
     
  24. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    The owners of a company control it.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2017
  25. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Do you have a point or is this going to be painfully dragged out for days like others?
     

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