why does government get 35% of my investment? after 40% pay and 10% sales? tax?

Discussion in 'Budget & Taxes' started by taxrentonly, Feb 16, 2014.

  1. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    I vote, many poor if left without aid would riot and maybe pull out the guillotines or have revolutions did you people learn nothing from other nations, you take away hope and give people nothing to lose they get desperate. And they go to prisons you still provide for them and its very expensive.

    I would say giving benefits is for the safety of society.

    [video=youtube_share;xHVo0hJhnK4]http://youtu.be/xHVo0hJhnK4[/video]
     
  2. nom de plume

    nom de plume New Member

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    "why does government get 35% of my investment? after 40% pay and 10% sales? tax?"

    Because someone has to feed and care for the nation's "poor people." Also, because of the "poor," the nation needs about 90% more police and fire protection.
     
  3. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Many are not simply 'poor'...many are uneducated, unskilled, illiterate, in poor health, drug and alcohol abuse, mental issues, etc. Being 'poor' does not cause all of the problems we see in the USA today. Many retired people and students are considered 'poor' but they are living normal lives so it's not solely about being 'poor'. So how does a nation solve 'uneducated, unskilled, illiterate, in poor health, drug and alcohol abuse, mental issues, etc.' IMO it can't be done, at least, in the next 100 years. How would things change with these people in 20 years if we just provided a public education system which is world-class instead of the current dropout factory? But it's not going to happen because we've got our collective heads stuck so far up our own asses self-serving our interests that we can't possibly think about the best interests of the USA. Every day all of these issues get worse...
     
  4. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    But it used to be less of an issue in the 1950's could be uneducated and get a decent blue color job that could support a family. What options are there now for low performing students?
     
  5. jakem617

    jakem617 Member

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    Are you really going to talk about revolution and aid in the same sentence? Do you know what the revolutionary war is? Please...read a history book, and a book on basic economics. You can't have benefits without taxes. 250 years ago, colonial Americans went to war over a tax on TEA!!! We now have taxes on almost everything we have (food, clothing, income, death, property, etc.), and the only way to support people like you (lazy and irresponsible individuals who don't want to earn what they have), we will need even more money. And you probably won't be happy with that, so then you'll want more, and more, and more. Eventually though, we are going to reach a tipping point just like colonial Americans did, when people are going to get fed up with the small group of people thousands of miles away taking their money and redistributing it as they see fit (to people like you who don't deserve a DIME of anybody's money). THAT is the kind of revolution you are pushing us into.
     
  6. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    I don't buy it...if a young person has good communication skills, works hard, pays attention, learns new skills, and keeps their nose clean, they will excel over all the unmotivated workers and be promoted. Along the line they can obtain more education and many times the employer will pay for this.

    So the real bottom line which no one wishes to discuss is lots of workers do not possess good communication skills, don't work hard, are not focused, don't learn new skills, and fail to avoid all those evil temptations in life alcohol, drugs, obesity, tobacco, etc. They are not bad people...they simply are not exemplary workers...
     
  7. unrealist42

    unrealist42 New Member

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    They will play by the rules and then get screwed and lose everything when the economy collapses.

    The real bottom line is that it does not matter what the average person does because larger forces are at work and the success or failure of any one individual is more a matter of luck and circumstance than anything else. The better your circumstance the better your chance to succeed, the lower your circumstance the higher your chance of failure.
    Some in a lower circumstance will succeed but most will not, some in higher circumstance will fail but most will not.

    The problem is one of perception. It is a popular perception among those in better circumstances to perceive individual failure as a failure of character because that is a common way that people in their circumstance achieve failure. They observe that people from poor circumstance seem to regularly make it into their ranks and that gives them the impression that anyone can become successful and reinforces their parochial perception that individual failure has to be a matter of character.

    This is a perfectly reasonable position to adopt given their limited experience of circumstance. It is also entirely wrong because it allows them to apply their myopic perceptions to everyone else regardless of circumstance. The failure of perception is that they do not perceive that the success of those born in poor circumstance has about the same chance as one of them becoming a Billionaire.
     
  8. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    No one gets screwed??

    Luck and circumstance are part of it but a very small part. Smart job seekers will try to work around depending on luck.

    Failure can be about character but it's also about a million other things.

    Blaming one's failure on circumstance is just making excuses! No one holds a gun to anyone's head and demands they make certain decisions about how they conduct their life...no one. Every person makes their own decisions and if they don't like the outcome they don't need to look any further than in their mirror...
     
  9. unrealist42

    unrealist42 New Member

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    If this was about blame you might have a point, but it isn't so you don't.
    Things happen, change in unforeseen ways comes and people will lose all that they have.
    At an individual level this may be caused by some sort of personal failing.
    But when a hurricane causes a hundred thousand people to lose everything is it?
    When the economy collapses and ten million people lose their jobs is it because 10 million people each made an individual poor job choice?
    Does the quality of the product or the chance encounter with an angel investor make one start up more successful than its competitors?
    Luck and circumstance are a far larger part of individual economic success than you are willing to consider.
     
  10. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Change creates challenges and it is these challenges which all of us must meet head on and CONTROL instead of letting stuff control us.

    If a person chooses to locate their home in a hurricane zone, then that person better be prepared to deal with the consequences of a hurricane.

    If the economy collapses or someone loses their job, they should be able to weather some down time until they find a job. How many people do you believe are saving 10% of their net pay each week instead of spending it on alcohol, tobacco, drugs, gambling, entertainment, excessive purchases?

    All investment includes some level of risk. Some start ups fail and others succeed for myriad reasons.

    People who whine 'luck and circumstance' obviously are not in control of their lives...
     
  11. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    Because if I get Medicaid and SSI someone able bodied and working has to pay for that, I would be unable to work and the government will have determined I cannot meaningfully work due to disabilities. If not then your not going to have to provide those to me but my odds are considered very good especially if Florida provides me with Medicaid before SSI either in the initial application or after I'm denied on appeal.
     
  12. unrealist42

    unrealist42 New Member

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    You seem to believe that the only reason people are poor is because they are all drug addicts and alcoholics and compulsive gamblers and spendthrifts.
    Hate to burst your bubble but only people with money can afford to become poverty stricken that way.

    Of course, a country club republican's only experience of poor people would be through one of their peers who fell into poverty by those means so, through a simplistic application of mistaken logic that only imbeciles could consider reasonable, they adopt the position that since the fall of their peer indicates a moral failure, it has to be a trait inherent in all poor people so they treat them with disdain and contempt and hatred.

    Meanwhile the rest of the poor, the other 99%, are trying as hard as they can to not be poor in a struggle against systemic mistreatment by the wealthy and powerful, who despise them for no reason except that they are not wealthy and powerful like themselves. It is a serious societal psychosis that left unchecked leads to things like the French and Russian revolutions.
     
  13. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Never mentioned poor?
    Never mentioned drug addicts?
    Never mentioned alcoholics?
    Never mentioned compulsive gamblers?
    Never mentioned spendthrifts?
    You're not bursting my bubble with your fictional drivel.

    Please show a single example of the 'systemic mistreatment by the wealthy and powerful'?

    Nothing you mention above has an ounce of merit...
     
  14. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    This discussion would be a lot more productive if everybody stopped thinking in terms of absolutes. Sucess in life is really a combination of both luck and effort. If you are born into a good family you will have have a head start. You will get a better education and grow up in a world more likely to promote the virtues of hard work. Can you be born privileged and then fail- of course it can happen either through bad luck or laziness or both.

    On the other side you can be born in poor circumstances and then rise above through a combination of hard work or innate intelligence but you can also fail. Your odds are lower if you are born poor but they can be overcome but the path is going to be harder than it is for the wealthy. And if you are born black and poor your odds are probably even smaller because of prejudice which will make Sucess harder.

    To think that every Sucess is deserved because of individual effort is just as foolish as to think every failure is due to flaws in the character of the person who fails.
     
  15. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    You cannot count on luck...but you can count on the efforts and decisions that you invest in yourself. FIRST each person must put forth the efforts to achieve more and SECOND it is possible that some luck along the way will help. But doing these in reverse order is a loser's game.

    Trying to measure which kid has it better or worse, especially when based on political speak, is a waste of time if someone is trying to solve a problem here. Rich kids fail and poor kids succeed and everything in between! Once kids are 16 or older, capable of thinking about productive paths in life, for example questioning if doing drugs, or hanging with gangs, or involved in crime, or not going to school are beneficial to them, what's their excuse for making the wrong decisions? Once they are legal adults, what's their excuse for not getting on a better path? I'm not saying anything for anyone is always going to be easy, I'm saying take responsibility for yourself and stop making excuses...

    - - - Updated - - -

    You cannot count on luck...but you can count on the efforts and decisions that you invest in yourself. FIRST each person must put forth the efforts to achieve more and SECOND it is possible that some luck along the way will help. But doing these in reverse order is a loser's game.

    Trying to measure which kid has it better or worse, especially when based on political speak, is a waste of time if someone is trying to solve a problem here. Rich kids fail and poor kids succeed and everything in between! Once kids are 16 or older, capable of thinking about productive paths in life, for example questioning if doing drugs, or hanging with gangs, or involved in crime, or not going to school are beneficial to them, what's their excuse for making the wrong decisions? Once they are legal adults, what's their excuse for not getting on a better path? I'm not saying anything for anyone is always going to be easy, I'm saying take responsibility for yourself and stop making excuses...
     
  16. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    I can vouch for the advantages that arise from being born into a wealthy family. Good education, good role models, country clubs, Excellant business contacts, etc, etc, To think this does not occur and does not make a difference in probability of success in the world is just being blind to reality. Sorry, but it is reality and denying it is foolish.

    I know where I am now and I know where I would have been had I not been born to privilege and believe me they are very different.
     
  17. Shanty

    Shanty New Member

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    Seeing the US is one of the lowest taxed developed nations, for businesses and individuals, not really.
     
  18. Shanty

    Shanty New Member

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    Yet, it has seen some kind of prosperity win out over far worse.
     
  19. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    But its also safe to say that without hard work there is no success. Luck might be a factor, but luck alone won't bring success. Even when luck presents an opportunity, you have to recognize the opportunity and go after it.
     
  20. Shanty

    Shanty New Member

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    We're paying even more for Bush's recession and doing it on larger deficits from his tax cuts that didn't create any jobs except some Fox News talking heads.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Opportunity has to be included. We have the far right trying to actively kill opportunity in the US. It's a disgrace, when we should be fostering opportunity for people to be able to move up in the world.
     
  21. raytri

    raytri Well-Known Member

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    Tax Freedom Day this year was April 21.
    http://taxfoundation.org/article/tax-freedom-day-2014-april-21-three-days-later-last-year
     
  22. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    The far right isn't running the nation and hasn't run the nation in 20 years of so. You have only your own ideologues to blame for the current disaster.
     
  23. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Because politicians have scribbled on some paper and thus given police the right to rob you. Stop questioning it and submit.

    Those politicians were elected by a majority of the people in society - are you saying the consensus shouldn't be able to have their way with you? What's wrong with you, are you a terrorist?
     
  24. Shanty

    Shanty New Member

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    The far right has effectively blocked legislation to make opportunities happen.

    The far right had control of all three branches of government under George W. Bush. And the far right has held control of the House of Representatives since 2011, with the Senate having the ability to filibuster since then, too. Blaming Democrats for the results Republicans create, is blame shifting.
     
  25. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    No, Republicans had control of the govt under Bush, not the "far right". The Republican establishment is just a slightly tamer version of "progressives", and now the Republican establishment is out of the closet with their war on conservatives.

    You are still stuck in the propaganda that there is a real difference between "progressives"/Democrats and the Republican establishment (Democrat Lite). Go past their words and look at their actions - the "2 party" model is a sham to distract people.

    Your party has control, and has for a very long time. What has this "obstruction" done? Did it stop the stimulus, highway robbery funding bills, bailouts of unions and companies, crony kickbacks? Was the debt ceiling held constant or lowered? For all its whining over the debt what did the Republicans agree to early this year? No debt ceiling at all!

    Wake up, you are being played for a fool by the D's and R's.
     

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