Why Does Radical Islam Hate the West?

I was asked this question in an earlier thread, and thought this subject deserves its own topic.

For starters, in order for one to advocate an aggressive stance on thwarting the rise and spread of Radical Islam, it is not necessary to completely understand what it is that drives and fuels their ideology. It is no more incumbent upon those that want to thwart its rise to be able to explain their belief system, then it is upon the police to understand the lunacy that permeates the mind of a serial killer before advocating aggressive measures to stop them. What is relevant is that in both cases we are talking about evil, and evil must be stopped no matter its belief system.

With that being said, it can be useful in both cases to understand what has brought them to their current state. I believe that Radical Islam exists because abject poverty and a lack of education enables manipulation. I believe that religion in general enables manipulation. I believe that Christianity has largely evolved from its barbaric roots. I believe in the case of Radical Islam, they have expressly NOT evolved from their barbaric roots. I believe that the Radical Islam movement has manipulated its followers into thinking that it is a thousand years ago and the Crusades are still in full swing.

To understand Islam in general, it is important to understand that they view basic human organization in a much different manner than us. To the west, the most basic form of identity is the nation. To Americans, we are Americans first, then we begin to delineate between Northerner, Southerner, Catholic, Jewish , Protestant etc. Conversely, Muslims don’t see a nation subdivided into religious groups, rather they see a religion subdivided into nations.

With this differing way of viewing human organization, it becomes easier to understand how Radical Islam is able to promulgate the notion that the crusades are in full swing. The Quran requires that all Muslims defend Islam, and if they believe that the west is attacking Islam, it is incumbent upon them to defend their faith. They take this notion, in combination with the fact that Muslims view the world as a religion subdivided into nations, and bastardize that into the notion that the west is at perpetual war with Islam.

Radical Islam is then able to convince its followers that the Wests support of Israel is an attack on all of Islam. They see our military presence in the Middle East as an attack on all Muslims. They see us killing Osama Bin laden as a cold blooded murder of one of their most revered leaders. They view us as exporting our culture through movies, music and the internet, which in their view is imposing a hedonistic, secular culture upon the Muslim world. In their world, there is no difference between faith and life, and there is expressly not a separation between church and state. Radical Islam seeks to spread Sharia Law worldwide, and culturally, the west is expressly the antithesis of Sharia Law.

Radical Islam also is easier to promulgate because radicalized Muslims love death the way that we love life. They have been taught that martyrdom for the cause of Allah guarantees them entry into heaven. In contrast, according to Muslim belief, even the most devout Muslim in the world is not guaranteed entry into heaven, since he somehow may have fallen short of the mark, with entry criteria not being completely clear like it is with Christianity. This one fact creates a seemingly never ending supply of willing martyrs.

Lastly, the way that Radical Islam is able to justify killing civilians, is how they view Democracy. Because in a Democracy, the people elect the government, and create the culture, Muslim Extremists espouse that therefore civilians are responsible for what the Muslim Extremists are preaching is a war on Islam both culturally and militarily. Osama Bin Laden expressly referred to American civilians therefore being responsible for the deaths of Palestinian Muslims, and those in Afghanistan, Somalia, Chechnya, and Kashmir.

 

1. Mohammad said to implement Sharia Law.
2. Ask yourself who stands in the way the most of #1 being implemented, and you'll have your answer.

Note also that it USED to be just "death to America", but not it's more "death to the west", including FRANCE of all places. That will eventually expand even further to OTHER places that are trying to stop Sharia such as the Phillipines and China and Russia, etc. We are likely going to be in WWIII.

 

A lot of your points have merit.

A personal anecdote: A little bit more than 20 years ago, when I worked on my PhD thesis, I had two coworkers in my lab from Iran, both highly educated. One was pretty westernized, but the other was more radical, although on a personal level the kindest guy. You could ask him for any favor and he would do it for you without question. We sort of became friends, although our paths diverged after I left the lab. I know that he went to the US later, but haven't heard from him since 20 years.

During the time, operation Desert Storm was conducted. What was noticeable was that he was strongly against the war. However, he HATED General Schwartzkopf with a passion. He had a picture of him on his desk that he used for pretend target practice. Note, that this was a guy from Iran, who should have been enemies with Iraq, but it seemed like that he felt his loyalties were more with the Mid-Easterners than the Westerners. Note, he was also secular, actually hated religion. However, he felt that the West had been meddling too long in Middle-Eastern affairs and that they had no business to have feet on the ground there. You can't deny that this view has some merit, from their point of view.

My travels to the Middle East have showed me that I cannot relate to their mindset, since it is too different from ours. However, I have met very nice and kind people on a personal level, some of them very hospitable. I am not sure how to solve this conflict. However, I know that continuing escalation probably will not result in a positive outcome.

 

I believe this is explained by the aspect I mentioned in the OP where Muslims view the world in terms of being a religion subdivided by nations. As Americans, we would assume that their national origin is their defining identifier. To them , it is solely about their religion and NOT their country. He was probably identifying himself as a Shia as opposed to an Iranian.

For sure there is not an easy answer. I don't believe however that putting our head in the sand by not escalating is going to solve this problem. If we were to withdraw completely from the Middle East, I do not believe that would stop the spread of the radical form of this ideology. You will surely argue that our presence there creates an escalation of recruiting to their ideology, and I would argue that the perceived victory a withdrawal would provide to radical Islam,would also serve the exact same purpose. We are damned in their eyes if we withdraw, and damned if we escalate. With the stated goal being a worldwide caliphate, anything short of the world converting to Islam and adopting Sharia Law, will be inadequate to satisfy the ire of radical Islam. For that reason, I believe appeasement is a waste of time, and only serves to strengthen their resolve. You cant exactly rationalize with those whose sole mission is to destroy your entire way of life.

 

As an example, their Qur'an, in verse 4:34, says to "beat" or "strike" your wife, so yes, I don't know how we can ever come to agreement with them, as long as they are Muslims, on even the BASIC values in life. It looks like WWIII is inevitable.
One reason I post more LINKS than most any poster here is because many people won't even believe the claims I say about the Qur'an, unless I show them: http://quran.com/4/34

 

I think that you can reason with the more moderate interpretations of Islam, but since the moderates are comparatively meek, and the radicals are brutally aggressive, the moderates are not likely to gain control anytime soon. Which is precisely why I believe we need to take an active role in helping moderate Muslims to seize control of governance in that region. The world will never see peace until that happens.

 

Instead, give an alternative to the underlying belief system, Islam.

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No, because Q4:34 will STILL say to "beat" or "strike" women! You want to put lipstick on a pig, to use that example.

 

I think if your goal is to wipe the religion of Islam off the face of the map, you have a goal that is unattainable.

If your goal is to coexist with the more moderate, dominant interpretation of Islam, wherein the moderates are in control of their crazies through being in control of their governance, that is a realistically attainable goal.

 

You have it backwards. It is the west that is trying to colonise the Middle East by use of force in order to enslave the masses into their global dominion based on a caste system that has the European at the top dictating everything through a tyrannical regime

 

How this is supposed to be a response to the OP defies any form of logic.

 

Sounds like a Crusade of sorts.

 

That's exactly what it is, Muslims v pagans ( the west. )

 

Don't forget about the few majority muslim countries that are secular and who strongly oppose this crap - they're not all like head-chopping Saudi Arabia. Indonesia, the most populous muslim nation (99% Sunni), are quite tolerant of other religions. Most people also forget that Iraq was formerly a secular state for well over thirty years.

 

Quran 4:34

4:35

So it isn't as cut and dried.
As for the Bible.......there are a lot of interesting passages.

 

So yet again religions lead to world to violence.
After all, the messiah in both belief systems (Jesus, aka Isa) allegedly said "Don't imagine that I came to bring peace to the earth! I came not to bring peace, but a sword." I can believe that. Where was Jesus during the Crusades?....the same place that Bigfoot was (non-existent.)
http://biblehub.com/matthew/10-34.htm

 

I like this part of what you've said.

But, the other parts on "radical Islam" are an unnecessary stretch.

The US has played a very serious role in keeping "stability" in the ME. The result of that has been the continuance of highly repressive governments, governments that have been unsuccessful in addressing the basic needs of the populace.

OBL, for example, believed that the Saudi Arabian dictatorship could not be opposed while the US remains in full support - including out major military presence.

Palestine, for example, can not hope to end the occupation by Israel while the US supports Israel with gigantic arms, financial and political support (such as preventing progress by intergovernmental agencies).

Iran is under serious embargo, led by the US.

Gaza is also under crushing embargo, started with the power of the USA as the GW presidency determined that citizens of Gaza voted wrong - 8 years ago, with no hope in sight even though the Hamas government as acceded to the entirely peaceful government of Abbas in West Bank.

We conquered Iraq, and put in place a government that has been slaughtering Sunnis which it is excluding from Iraq's government - leaving 20 million Iraqis disenfranchised.

We supported the government of Egypt, helping the failed government stay in power right up to the point where the revolution was clearly going to succeed.

We conquered Afg and coerce the government of Pakistan to do stuff its people object to very strongly.

No people on earth appreciate foreign powers freely killing people inside their nation - even when they may agree those killed are a serious problem. And, our marksmanship has not been that great.

etc., etc., etc.



This idea that one has to go to Islam to figure out what those in the ME don't like about our "contribution" to their situation stems from our own ignorance and excuse making.

Besides, the ME is only 17% of Islam. Why would you blame Islam when all you can point to is a small minority - only part of the 17%??? After all, we DO have Muslim friends in the ME (besides here in the US and other places in the world).

 

Radical Islam hates EVERYONE who does not totally accept thier fanatical beliefs. DELETED THIS IS TROLLING FOR AN EMOTIONAL RESPONSE AND OFF TOPIC. Radical Islam has killed a lot more Muslims than they have westerners.

 

1. Wow, you are trying to justify wife beating. Wow.

2. Yes, we can all agree that the bible is equally appalling when it comes to unfair treatment towards women. Jesus never spoke up specifically for women's rights. Jesus' legacy (the bible) horrifically says "The women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church." - 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 ESV
Hear that ladies, you are apparently inferior (Jesus never corrected that thinking) so they don't even want you to TALK in church. Unreal! In Modern Secular Humanism you are seen as equals.

 

Agreed. Also radical pagans hate anyone who disagrees with them and have been known to drop a bomb or 20,000 on cities that they don't agree with. In other words, think more before you post, like think 10 times about it, then post it

 

Radical Islam doesn't just hate the West - they will hate China, India, Modernity, & on & on.

1. Islam remembers a time when they were the coming culture/civilization - from 630 - 1500CE, they owned most of the Mediterranean.
2. Europe/the West developed technologically, while Islam didn't, or @ least hasn't so far.
3. From being a source of slaves & booty, the West became overlords to Islam, & redrew political boundaries, crushed Islamic armies, & came & went as we pleased.
4. Islam isn't going to forget their history with the West, & they're not likely to forgive us having achieved dominion.
5. @ the same time, Islam is so far unwilling to make the changes - in how they treat women, in public schooling K-12, in subsistence agriculture, in politics, etc. to become more competitive with the West, or @ least to participate in Western society on the same basis as any other customer/consumer.

 

Only "radical" Islam you say!? You do realize that (like the Bible) all non-believers are apparently so hated, so disgusting, so incredibly vile, that they all deserve torture, torture, and nothing but brutal torture, right? Even Hitler didn't brutally torture all of the Jews in his concentrations camps. Compared to Jesus/Allah, Hitler was practically an "old softy" in the torture department.

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Asking them, THEY haven't forgot the Crusades, either. That's why AQ often refers to the west as "The Crusaders", even to this very day.

 

Obama is now asking Congress to EXPAND the bombings (his war powers), not to reduce them.

And how much $ to fight ISIS/Islam ideologically? Huh, he'd rather just bomb the brown people from 10,000 feet than try to take on their ideology. Of course his father was a Muslim, and he was brought up in a Muslim school in Indonesia (during his most impressionable years), so.......

 

Please read the Qur'an to understand that spreading Sharia Law is virtually the #1 command from their #1 role model.
Thanks.

 

We used to do that!

We propped up moderate secular Islamic states all over the Middle East.

Most were military dictatorships (a favorite kind of government for the US over the years).

Sadaam Hussein, the Shah of Iraq, Nassar, Hafez Assad, and the Saudi Royal Family all know exactly how to deal with radical Islam.

All we had to do was leave them to their own affairs, and we never had to put a boot on the ground.