Why does the universe exist?

Discussion in 'Science' started by Patricio Da Silva, Jan 4, 2022.

  1. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Mathematics exists in the abstract and has a profound influence and affectation on the real world

    I find that interesting, that's all.

    The term 'abstract' does have other meanings, and I mentioned them to clarify the various distinctions so no confusion would result.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2022
  2. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well, math has applications in physics, correct?

    That fact doesn't change anything.
     
  3. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Math is used as a descriptive language.
     
  4. Gelecski7238

    Gelecski7238 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Entanglement happens at faster than light speed. Distance is not a barrier to some types of micro processes. Life on earth is a macro process. Macro limitations need not be imposed on micro processes.

    We are more than our physical bodies. If you can't embrace that prospect because there's no hard evidence, then there's nothing more to discuss.
     
  5. Gelecski7238

    Gelecski7238 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The timeline for progression/regression amongst the galaxies in our universe is only part of the big picture to ponder. The rest of the story involves multiverse behavior, which is an even bigger unknown. Perhaps the only certainty is this generality: anything that has a beginning probably has an end.
     
  6. Pixie

    Pixie Newly Registered

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    ISTM maths is just a set of symbols we use to describe things. But so far it seems to follow or describe the logic of the reality of what we want to know, since we can prove that logic (albeit by using the same symbols).
    I have wondered if it is the ONLY one or when scientists get further into the tiniest of events, some other language may have to be invented.
    But as a language (A represents this and B represents that) it works so far.
     
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  7. MiaBleu

    MiaBleu Well-Known Member

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    WHY ...does the Universe exit???


    Not sure we can answer the WHY question.........as it goes to "motive"
    We can deal with "how, where, when and what ., who ..........but "why" is more complicated.......and can be more abstract and philosophical.

    It exists because it exists...
     
  8. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    The issue related to other universes. Light speed won't get you to other universes, and I don't see quantum mechanics proposing entanglement with other universes.

    I would suggest that the macroprocesses of this universe are collections of microprocesses.

    If you want to believe something for which there is no evidence, is totally undetectable, and isn't needed to explain any phenomena, I'm fine with that.

    For example, you will note from my posts that I don't try to convince people that there really isn't a god.
     
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  9. Richard The Last

    Richard The Last Well-Known Member

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    Oh you're crazy alright! But you're not wrong.
     
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  10. MiaBleu

    MiaBleu Well-Known Member

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    I would never presume to tell others what to believe ..........Nor do I take kindly to being told what to believe. Beliefs are a personal choice as they involve ones ow personal philosophy for life.
     
  11. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Good! I don't want that to happen, either!

    You and everyone else can believe anything you want about god. I'm fine with that.

    I'm just saying that there is no way to merge religion and science. There IS a definition of science. And, it doesn't allow for science to say anything about religion.

    Surely that's the way YOU want it, too. Why would you want science to tell you what to believe concerning religion??
     
  12. MiaBleu

    MiaBleu Well-Known Member

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    Science is based on facts, logic and evidence. Religion is not. (more abstract )

    as you say........ folks can believe whatever they want........ makes no never mind ...........to others (or me)...........as , again......it is a personal thing. as long as these beliefs do not affect others in a negative way.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2022
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  13. Diablo

    Diablo Well-Known Member

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    Well, that's not quite true. Religion believes in the power of prayer which affects the physical world. Science could investigate that. Then there are miracles, which could also be investigated.
     
  14. Diablo

    Diablo Well-Known Member

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    True, like stoning women and gay men to death for non-crimes.
     
  15. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. So, discussing religion in the science section makes no sense.

    However, in the religion section there are all sorts of ideas concerning what the rules and processes are for religion and how/whether god fits in.

    That can include our physical world in any way posters desire.

    And, it is useful in ways beyond working to figure out some form of absolute truth - it allows for gaining understanding of the belief systems of others!

    I think that's important.
     
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  16. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    You can't design a scientifically valid experiment that outs God.
     
  17. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I should have commented on the light speed part.

    Quantum mechanics doesn't claim that information can travel at light speed. There is no indication that the cosmic speed limit is broken. And, this feature can't be used to transmit even a single digit of information.

    In fact, the "many worlds" interpretation claims that what actually happens is that the universe divides such that there are two universes, each an exact duplicate except exhibiting one of the possible states!!

    While that sounds unacceptably strange, there really is very little if anything about quantum mechanics that doesn't qualify as unacceptably strange.
     
  18. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Science has limitations, does it not? Can science account for emotion, ego, consciousness, free will? these things exist, yet science cannot reach them, nor will they ever, in my opinion, because the latter is not a linear finite distance away from the former. They exist in difference spheres. I would venture a guess to say that humanity is more than just bits and bytes and that something is attempted to be reached by religion, but I don't feel religion does a very good job, either, unless we are discussing Taoism, Zen, etc., which do not report to be religion ( eastern philosophy, I believe, is the term ). There are some interesting videos of a couple of neurologists discussing such things with an Indian Guru (Sadhguru) which I find very interesting.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2022
  19. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    Then what about this? :

    https://quantumxc.com/blog/is-quantum-communication-faster-than-the-speed-of-light/

    Orzel sums up the dilemma appropriately when he says, “the whole business [of quantum entanglement] is subtle and complicated. The end result is always the same, though: While it’s one of the weirdest and coolest phenomena in physics, there is no way to use quantum entanglement to send messages faster than the speed of light.”

    Nevertheless, research continues on this subject and some physicists believe that faster-than-light communication might be possible with some intricate manipulation of entangled particles. For now, we know that the interaction between entangled quantum particles is faster than the speed of light. In fact, Chinese physicists have measured the speed. We know that quantum entanglement can be used to realize quantum teleportation experimentally. We know that entanglement has applications in the emerging technologies of quantum computing and quantum cryptography. With a fiber optic network that can carry conventional data and quantum data, a quantum internet is becoming more of a possibility. The real hurdle to overcome, though is being able to communicate data through quantum entanglement – that’s when we might be able to communicate faster than the speed of light.

    But, the problem is using the process to communicate. Maybe, some day, that problem can be solved.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2022
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  20. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    There is nothing to indicate that our human brains aren't capable of emotions, ego, consciousness, etc.

    These are all calculable and perform important functions that are likely to be advantaged in evolution. We see these features growing in strength in sync with brain development. There are numerous studies that involve individuals who have various kinds of congenital deformities or injuries, plus techniques and equipment for locating where work is being done in the brain.

    I know there are many people who would just like to say "God did it", or some variant of that. Some even want to believe that there is some sort of personal god that provides these capabilities to each individual on an ongoing basis.

    The science of this is interesting, but it seems to me to be well off topic.
     
  21. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    What are you actually asking?

    I do NOT agree that the problem is using this process to communicate rapidly.

    The problem is understanding how our universe works.

    Figuring out quantum mechanics and its relationship to the standard model is the problem.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2022
  22. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    I'm not saying God did it, either, and, in fact, I do not accept the entire premise of 'God' if that means 'intelligent design'. It's not logical. I do believe in the concept that our essence is non physical in nature, which is to say, we are a 'soul', though I don't like the word. I only believe that for having a couple of OOBE's once upon a time, in my life. If it hadn't been for those experiences, I don't think I would have believed it.

    But I'd like to see AI create a self aware machine.

    I don't think it's possible, however, because, in my opinion, there is not a linear relationship between machine and human consciousness. In other words, given that fact ( I'm assuming it is a fact ) the former cannot attain the latter.

    Consciousness, self awareness, or 'sentient beingness' is beyond physics. It can be simulated to such a degree, however, to fool people, and I"m sure it will go that far.

    In order for AI to attain self awareness, a good part of the robot will have to be organic, so we're talking cyborgs/androids, etc. That might be possible. But a pure machine with no organics whatsoever? I don't think so.
     
  23. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    You said that QE can't move information faster than SOL. ANd, correct, no claim to that has been made.

    But since QE has been measured at faster than light, so why can't it be used to transmit data faster than SOL?
    Isn't that just a physics/engineering problem?
    Learning how the universe works is one thing, but learning the why the universe exists, that's not knowable, in my opinion.
     
  24. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I'm just talking about humans. Life has had a lot of years. And, we can see the progression.

    What we manage to create is somewhat of a different question.
     
  25. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    OK, to pass information using two entangled particles, one would need to be able to set what the local particle's state becomes - thus setting the state of the other particle through the quantum effect of collapsing the wave form. That way, you could set the state of that other particle - a message!!

    But, quantum mechanics doesn't offer any way to set what the local particle's state will become when the wave form collapses. And, that is fundamental - not just some sort of engineering problem to overcome.

    So, once you look at the local particle, you know what the other one is. But, you had no way to determine what it would be.

    Again, this is a fundamental of quantum mechanics.

    There is some question of what China actually did, but there isn't any doubt that the behavior of the entangled particles is stupendously fast. But, there is no indication that the cosmic speed limit is is overcome, because the cosmic speed limit is about mass and information. And, the entanglement scenario doesn't involve mass or information.
     

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