In economics there is a concept that, once a pattern is recognized, it ceases to exist. The reason is that people cash in on the pattern and make it to disappear. There appears to be a similar dynamic with God. Whenever people think that they have God figured out, God would throw a curve ball. It appears that God does not want to be known. The reason for that appears to be that, when people think that they have God figured out, they themselves want to become God. They of course do a lousy job of it. Whether it be Genghis Khan or Stalin or Kim Il Sung or anyone else, the person who tries to be God fails miserably and ends up doing all sorts of stupid things. That is because they are not God. Alexander Pushkin, the greatest of Russian poets, had a poem about a fisherman. God asked the man what he wanted; and every day the man kept asking for more. God kept obliging until the man wanted to become God. At that point God took away everything that He had given the man and left him back as a fisherman. There appears to be a good reason for such a thing. Whenever people find something out, they try to replicate it. By this logic it would follow that, if people were to understand God, they would attempt to construct another God. That of course may not sit well with God. So that is where we find ourselves now. Now there are any number of people who see things such as genetic modification to be “playing God”; but most of these people are hypocrites. They see nothing wrong with destroying what they believe God to have created and everything wrong with creating something new. This is a very wrongful mentality. It is a mentality that accepts destructive potentials but suspects creative potentials. And the outcome of that mentality is humanity becoming completely destructive while failing to avail of the creative potentials that it has. Once again, I see nothing wrong with finding out how living things work and even creating new ones. But when we try to understand God, the wrongful potentials are twofold. One is that of people acquiring over other people and over the world godlike powers and using them for all sorts of wrongdoing. And the other is that of people creating another God to compete with this one. In the Transformers, there is the battle between two super-powerful robots: Optimus Prime and Magatron. If people were to create another God, the competition between the existing God and the created God would be far greater than anything in Transformers. We would see a situation that would make the Matrix scenario look like a walk in the park. So needless to say, it very much does appear that God does not want to be known to human intelligence, and for what seems to be a very good reason. That does not however mean that God leaves us in the lurch. Solomon asked God for wisdom, and God obliged. But even more viable path is faith. Wisdom can be apprehended and used for wrong things, which means that God will not reveal all of it to us. Whereas faith is reliance on wisdom of God, and that cannot be used for wrong. So God will then give people the gift of faith and direct them according to His wisdom, which will in all cases be greater than ours. Thus the method that many people associate with ignorance and stupidity – faith – in fact becomes the smartest path that is there. And it is a path that, unlike either knowledge or wisdom, cannot be used for wrong.
RE: Why God Does Not Want To Be Known • Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by ibshambat,※→ ibshambat, et al, This presupposes that there is a "Supreme Being" (SB) and the "Ultimate Cosmic Creator" (UCC). This is an un-challengeable belief based on a given assumption; one that is beyond the cognitive ability (individually or collectively) to process through sensory information and evaluate, analyze, and understand cause and effect leading to the discovery of a SB and UCC. Such assumptions can neither be proved or disproved. There are many, many, contemporary and qualitative presentations suggesting that humanity has concluded that there is a SB and UCC. One of the more elegant observations was made by Max Plank (One of the most influential theoretical physicists of the 20th Century): "As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clearheaded science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about the atoms this much: There is no matter as such! All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particles of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. . . . We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Spirit. This Spirit is the matrix of all matter." (COMMENT) There is a perplexing quandary here: Is the basic interrogative that "God does not want to be known?" --- OR --- Is the basic interrogative is about the human ability to conceptually understand the scope and true nature of a SB and UCC? Maybe the notion of a SB/UCC is simply beyond comprehension. (COMMENT) Faith is NOT in the same category as knowledge or ignorance. They are dissociative; individually --- one can have faith in something and be either knowledgeable or ignorant. Most Respectfully, R
I am not talking here about assumptions. I am talking about all sorts of experiences with less than a billionth chance of happening whose only possible explanation is that of God.
RE: Why God Does Not Want To Be Known • Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by ibshambat,※→ ibshambat, et al, • It has been my experience that Rational Arguments have no impact on the religious. • While "there is no single ‘established’ terminology for different models of faith;" ⇔ (see Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy entry on "faith" First published Wed Jun 23, 2010; substantive revision Wed Mar 30, 2016) by definition, "faith" is not based on logic and experience; but rather "spiritual apprehension." (COMMENT) The concept changes as it its ravaged over time --- and --- are heavily influenced by the mindset of any given venue. In --- faith --- probability and chance play absolutely no part in the belief. One either has true faith and believes, or they don't. In the rational world --- probability and chance --- don't confer either belief or disbelief. The first (faith) requires no reason or proof to believe. The second holds that any concept that defies reason is absurd; and therefore (∴) rejected. The judgment as to whether a "belief" is correct or not is a matter of "outcome." There is a Philosophical proposition called the Principle of Sufficient Reason (PSR). PSR is a proposition that ever event or fact has a reason or explanation; and supports determinism. Or, within the universe, there is not such thing as a contingent fact. Within the universe the nature of reason is "necessary" (not contingent: Baruch Spinoza). The question "why are we here" can be answered in two ways: • Intelligent Design by a Supreme Being/Ultimate Cosmic Creator. • We are here because there is no other alternative; it is the outcome of the previous event, which is the outcome of a previous event, which is the outcome of a previous event ... and etc, etc → all the way back to the beginning of time. Yes, the first answer (reliance on the supernatural) is easier (poof! G-d did it). But the reliance on the supernatural is only a crutch to avoid the saying: "I do not know." Granted, there are some events that occur for which go unexplained (the cause or reason is unknown). That does not mean there is not cause or reason. (QUESTION) It is stated as a reason that the "only possible explanation is that of G-d." √ What is G-D? √ What characteristics does this Supreme Being have? √ What powers and attributes do you assign to this "G-D" that would permit the creation of humanity? Most Respectfully, R
Which God do you think exists? God is just a title. All of the deities have names and there are thousands of them. Almost all of them are dead and forgotten.
RE: Why God Does Not Want To Be Known • Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by ibshambat,※→ The Wyrd of Gawd, et al, Yes, there are a multitude of deities with names. (COMMENT) In most cases, unless otherwise specified, general discussions about a deity is accepted to mean the very same deity honored by the Jewish, the Christians and the Muslims; the "God of Abraham." The term that is more encompassing is "Supreme Being;" which is more inclusive. The terms "Ultimate Cosmic Creator" and "The Great Architect of the Universe" (and variants on the theme) are generalized descriptions based on deeds along the central theme. Most Respectfully, R
There are a lot of Hindus and Buddhists in the world. Here's a ful list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_deities
Correlation does not imply causation. Limiting the "only possible explanation" to God is an object example of confirmation bias.
RE: Why God Does Not Want To Be Known • Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by ibshambat, ※→ Diablo, et al, That is a misinterpretation. I think you've misread something, or I did not communicated something correctly. (COMMENT) The Supreme Being is at the top of the pyramid. It is a secular term that can cover any deity you want without without a specific reference to any particular religion. The Ultimate Cosmic Creator is religion immaterial, denoting the "intelligence designer" or the Creator of Cosmic Consciousness. The Great Architect of the Universe is a universal master builder. It can be applied in a secular manner and is religion immaterial; but does not necessarily imply that it created humanity. The God of Abraham --- and the --- God in Abrahamic Religions is one and the same. It is specifically applicable to Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. The God in Abrahamic Religions has specific powers and characteristics associated with it that may be controversial and or inconsistent with recorded religious history ot teachings. For instance, the Abrahamic Religions generally hold that their God maintains a direct relationship between the exercise of God Powers and the attributes of morality, perfection, and goodness; that the God of Abraham is omni-benevolent. The tenants of each religion have a slightly different belief in the assignment of attributes and characteristics. Some religious beliefs consider that humanity cannot fathom the length and breath of their God. See the links provided (Posting #6) for a more detailed description. Most Respectfully, R
RE: RE: Why God Does Not Want To Be Known • Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by ibshambat, ※→ Diablo, et al I have to chuckle at this. (COMMENT) As an Agnostic I acknowledge that there is no imperical evidence to prove (or even make highly probably) the existence of a Deity (any level) or religious supernatural beings and entities. But, I also know that there is a limit to my knowledge and understanding of the universe. Just because I know the language of the various belief systems, changes nothing but my understanding of their position. There is no cause for me too discount them entirely, even as a considered these various belief systems as highly improbably or improbably. It does not hurt me (and no one else is injured) to listen and understand their belief to tenants. I understand symbols, amulets, talisman, runes and charms. That does not mean I believe in the supernatural. Just because I read and understand the rudiments of mysticism and alchemy, does not mean I believe in witches, warlocks and the occult, does not mean I actually believe in magic and and the associated crafts. It just means I can converse (somewhat) intelligently on the subject. Most Respectfully, R
This is what the Rocco guy said: The tenants of each religion have a slightly different belief in the assignment of attributes and characteristics. He probably meant tenets, but nevermind. I suppose believing in christ is slightly different than not....trying to say that these 3 religions are the same is like equating chalk and cheese. Utter, utter nonsense.
RE: RE: Why God Does Not Want To Be Known • Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by ibshambat, ※→ Diablo, et al I'm so glad you pointed that mistake out! I'm not perfect. (COMMENT) I did not say that the "trying to say that these 3 religions are the same" as you improperly state. I said that the Abrahamic religions have the same "God" in common. I even supplied a link. Most Respectfully, R
