Why Gun Laws Don't Work

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Well Bonded, Feb 28, 2020.

  1. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2018
    Messages:
    9,049
    Likes Received:
    4,354
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Because criminals do not respect laws, anti-gun laws only effect the law abiding, something the anti-gunners refuse to recognize, or worse yet in turn support the arming of criminals, while disarming the law abiding.

    That's a very sick attitude.

    Plant City Man Sentenced to Seven Years for Possessing Firearm and Ammunition

    Tampa, Florida – U.S. District Judge Mary S. Scriven has sentenced James Bailey (33, Plant City) to seven years in federal prison for possessing a firearm and ammunition as a convicted felon. The court also ordered Bailey to forfeit the firearm and ammunition.

    According to court documents, on March 12, 2019, law enforcement officers responded to a 911 call regarding an aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. Upon arrival, the officers encountered Bailey and located a loaded sawed-off shotgun, with an obliterated serial number, at the rear of his vehicle. Bailey then fled on foot, but was apprehended after a short foot chase. Following his arrest, Bailey admitted to possessing the firearm. Witnesses also confirmed that Bailey had pointed the shotgun out of his car’s window. Bailey, an 11-time convicted felon, was prohibited from possessing a firearm or ammunition.

    https://www.atf.gov/news/pr/plant-city-man-sentenced-seven-years-possessing-firearm-and-ammunition

    Convicted Felon Sentenced to More Than Seven Years for Possessing a Firearm

    Tampa, Florida – U.S. District Judge Susan C. Bucklew today sentenced Andron McKinney (29, Tampa) to seven years and eight months in federal prison for possessing a firearm and ammunition as a convicted felon. The court also ordered McKinney to forfeit the firearm and ammunition used in the offense.

    McKinney had pleaded guilty on November 29, 2019.

    According to court documents, subsequent to a traffic stop, law enforcement officers searched the car that McKinney had been driving and found a loaded pistol underneath the driver’s seat. McKinney’s fingerprint was found on the magazine inside the pistol. At the time, McKinney had multiple prior convictions for narcotics-related felonies and domestic violence felonies and is therefore prohibited from possessing a firearm or ammunition.

    Mission Man Sentenced for Felon in Possession of a Firearm

    Luke Joseph Burning Breast, age 36, was sentenced to 16 months in federal prison, followed by 2 years of supervised release, forfeiture of a firearm, and a special assessment to the Federal Crime Victims Fund in the amount of $100.

    Burning Breast was indicted by a federal grand jury on August 14, 2019. He was convicted of the charge on December 10, 2019, following a two-day jury trial in Pierre, South Dakota.

    The conviction stemmed from Burning Breast being previously convicted of Drug User in Possession of a Firearm, a felony, in U.S. District Court for the District of South Dakota in 2008. On April 9, 2019, in Rosebud, South Dakota, Burning Breast was at a residence when a heated altercation ensued between him and his domestic partner. Law enforcement was contacted and responded to the residence. At the scene, officers overheard Burning Breast say his rifle was placed outside during the argument. Upon questioning, Burning Breast affirmed the location of the rifle and acknowledged his prior felony conviction, but erroneously asserted the conviction was expunged. Officers found the rifle outside the residence as Burning Breast described. Burning Breast’s felony conviction had not been expunged and remained valid.

    https://www.atf.gov/news/pr/mission-man-sentenced-felon-possession-firearm
     
    Turtledude and Richard The Last like this.
  2. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    23,895
    Likes Received:
    7,537
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Shall we discuss the politicians from the state of California who was arrested for knowingly engaging in the trafficking of firearms and various other types of weapons both to and from contacts overseas?
     
    Well Bonded likes this.
  3. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2018
    Messages:
    9,049
    Likes Received:
    4,354
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes, but such doesn't fit the anti-gunners narrative, so you can expect a lot of distractive off topic comments and maybe some child like Emopji's posted trying to derail the thread from the core of what it is actually about.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2020
  4. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2018
    Messages:
    4,475
    Likes Received:
    1,422
    Trophy Points:
    113
    All laws effect the law abiding and the law breakers as long as the laws are enforced. Killers will kill and thieves will thieve. The laws must be enforced in order to have a civil society. Other first world nations have enforced gun laws and societies much more civil than ours. They rarely have unstable gun collectors shooting up coworkers or teenagers killing each other over facebook beefs.
     
  5. M.A. Survivalist

    M.A. Survivalist Newly Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2020
    Messages:
    209
    Likes Received:
    79
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Gender:
    Male
    That doesn't mean they don't have a higher murder rate. Im not talking specifically about murder with guns Im talking about overall murder by any method. There are countries that have much stricter gun laws than the USA and a much higher murder rate than the USA.
     
    Grau likes this.
  6. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2018
    Messages:
    4,475
    Likes Received:
    1,422
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Jeez, here it comes......who?
     
  7. M.A. Survivalist

    M.A. Survivalist Newly Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2020
    Messages:
    209
    Likes Received:
    79
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Gender:
    Male
    South Africa to name one example. They've got much stricter gun laws in South Africa than they do in the USA and they've got a murder rate per capita that's almost seven times higher.
     
    Turtledude likes this.
  8. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2018
    Messages:
    4,475
    Likes Received:
    1,422
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And they are first world?
     
  9. M.A. Survivalist

    M.A. Survivalist Newly Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2020
    Messages:
    209
    Likes Received:
    79
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Gender:
    Male
    The term "first world" is not a valid term in this day and age as the cold war between the US and Russia is over.

    But to answer your question, yes, South Africa was first world during the cold war.
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2020
    Turtledude likes this.
  10. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    91,877
    Likes Received:
    73,632
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female

    Okay don’t have to read past the first sentence to see it is bulldust

    upload_2020-2-29_15-26-34.jpeg

    When guns are harder to get then the criminals also have a hard time getting them. Yes the organised crime criminals will have guns but the average punk looking for a quick buck - where will they get their gun
     
    CCitizen likes this.
  11. M.A. Survivalist

    M.A. Survivalist Newly Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2020
    Messages:
    209
    Likes Received:
    79
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Gender:
    Male
    From the illegal market.
     
    Well Bonded likes this.
  12. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2018
    Messages:
    9,049
    Likes Received:
    4,354
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Countries such as?
     
  13. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2018
    Messages:
    9,049
    Likes Received:
    4,354
    Trophy Points:
    113
    According to the U.S. DoJ you are incorrect, the majority of the guns obtained by criminals are off the street via. the black market.
     
  14. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    23,895
    Likes Received:
    7,537
    Trophy Points:
    113
    How did the known gang member in the nation of Australia go about procuring a prohibited firearm that was supposedly removed from the public?
     
  15. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    23,895
    Likes Received:
    7,537
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Name the specific countries which are being referred to on the part of yourself.
     
  16. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    91,877
    Likes Received:
    73,632
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Do you know the average age of a gun owned by a criminal in Australia? 25 years old

    That is because there is no new supply into the market
     
  17. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    23,895
    Likes Received:
    7,537
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The border forces of the nation of Australia disagree with such an assessment.

    https://www.theaustralian.com.au/na...s/news-story/651ec4e95863a66cc84ce9a408a24948

    https://www.bignewsnetwork.com/news/259275659/gun-smuggling-operation-in-australia-foiled-by-feds

    https://10daily.com.au/news/crime/a190107jxk/rogue-gun-dealers-operating-in-australia-20190114

    These are accounts only of the firearms that have been successfully intercepted. There is no telling how many have been smuggled into the country successfully without detection or interception.

    Even if such could be blamed on organized crime rather than low-level criminals, it is an admission that the criminal element in the nation of Australia is out of control, essentially admitting the nation of Australia is nowhere near as safe as its proponents and residents claim it is. Any organization that can afford to have approximately two thousand firearms smuggled into the country in a given year should not be written off as if it were nothing to worry about.
     
  18. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    2,860
    Likes Received:
    481
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Why do so many violent criminals in other countries obey gun laws? There are many countries that have much lower gun crime rates than the US. So it seems very few criminals are obtaining guns and using them in the commission of crimes in those countries.

    The gun lobby in the US likes to make sure that there are plenty of loopholes in gun laws so criminals can easily circumvent those laws and then the gun lobby can claim, "See! Gun control doesn't work! I told you so!"
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2020
  19. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2018
    Messages:
    4,475
    Likes Received:
    1,422
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Let's talk about South Africa that is largely poor and rural. They have a homicide rate of 35/100k, we have a rate of 5/100k, but their deaths by firearm is 6.9/100k and ours is 10.6/100k, so can you imagine the impact if it had loose gun laws.
    https://businesstech.co.za/news/lif...f-gun-deaths-heres-where-south-africa-stands/

    I should have used the term "developed countries" so you all would not nitpick.
     
  20. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    23,895
    Likes Received:
    7,537
    Trophy Points:
    113
    They do not.

    Such has been a constant even before the countries implemented anything resembling to the firearm-related restrictions they currently possess. At no point in the history of any other nation, has it ever experienced a level of firearm-related violence even remotely close to that experienced by the united states.

    And yet it cannot actually be proven that such is a result of firearm-related restrictions, as opposed to any other possible factor.

    As things presently stand in the united states, firearm manufacturers can only sell their products to those who hold a federal firearms license, certifying them in the sale of firearms to the public. A federally licensed firearms dealer can only sell a firearm to an individual who passes a background check through the national instant check system, which is maintained by the FBI. It is illegal for a federally licensed firearms dealer to knowingly sell a firearm to anyone who is a prohibited individual, whose name is in the national instant check system.

    Pray tell, exactly what so called "loopholes" presently exist that allow for the sale of firearms to criminals?
     
  21. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2015
    Messages:
    9,035
    Likes Received:
    4,223
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Welcome to this forum and thanks for your input.
    Actually, there are at least 80 countries around the world that have higher homicide rates than the US and none of them have anything like our 2nd Amendment.

    "Intentional homicides (per 100,000 people) - Country Ranking"
    https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/indicators/VC.IHR.PSRC.P5/rankings

    Gun control advocates like to cherry pick a few smaller countries than the US that are nothing like the US to support their flawed argument:


    "The Mistake of Only Comparing US Murder Rates to "Developed" Countries"
    https://mises.org/wire/mistake-only-...oped-countries

    EXCERPT " Note, however, that these comparisons always employ a carefully selected list of countries, most of which are very unlike the United States. They are countries that were settled long ago by the dominant ethnic group, they are ethnically non-diverse today, they are frequently very small countries (such as Norway, with a population of 5 million) with very locally based democracies (again, unlike the US with an immense population and far fewer representatives in government per voter). Politically, historically, and demographically, the US has little in common with Europe or Japan.

    The US has the highest murder rate in the "developed world" — presumably because of its lax guns laws —we are told again and again.

    Few people who repeat this mantra have any standard in their heads of what exactly is the "developed" world. They just repeat the phrase because they have learned to do so. They never acknowledge that when factors beyond per capita GDP are considered, it makes little sense to claim Sweden should be compared to the US, but not Argentina. Such assertions ignore immense differences in culture, size, politics, history, demographics, or ethnic diversity. Comparisons with mono-ethnic Asian countries like Japan and Korea make even less sense"CONTINUED
     
  22. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    23,895
    Likes Received:
    7,537
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Thus an open admission that laws do not work if the people simply choose to ignore them.
     
  23. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2018
    Messages:
    9,049
    Likes Received:
    4,354
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The truth is they don't, which is why the murder rate in many countries with strong controls is much higher then in the U.S.

    [​IMG]
    Again another lie on your part, the gun lobby does not encourage any such loopholes.
     
  24. M.A. Survivalist

    M.A. Survivalist Newly Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2020
    Messages:
    209
    Likes Received:
    79
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Gender:
    Male
    Exactly. They have much stricter gun laws and they have a much higher homicide rate than the USA.
    As for the USA having a higher gun death rate, why should it make a difference if people get their lives cut short by guns or by other means? Murder is murder. Or perhaps you can tell all the friends and families of the murder victims who were not murdered with guns that at least their loved ones weren't killed with guns.
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2020
  25. M.A. Survivalist

    M.A. Survivalist Newly Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2020
    Messages:
    209
    Likes Received:
    79
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Gender:
    Male
    South Africa looks quite developed to me.
    upload_2020-2-29_10-21-21.png
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2020

Share This Page