Abortion is a very sensitive subject that deserves a lot of thought and care in deciding ones own opinion on the matter, which I have done and will share with you all. I think abortion should be allowed in two cases, 1. The mother life is threatened(if the mother dies the baby dies anyway so either way the baby dies so might as well save the mother) 2. When a woman becomes pregnant due to sexual abuse such as rape etc. Other than that I see no reason for why abortion should be allowed and I will give you my reasons. The first is that just because you were not responsible enough to use proper protection while having sexual relations with another person, that does not give you the right to escape the consequences of your actions by killing a child just because it's inconvenient for you. Now others would dispute me on this by saying something like 'But Matt, it's the woman's body, she should have the right to do with it as she chooses', and I agree which is why I am not taking out her lung or her kidney forcibly because it's her body but a fetus is it's own entity. Another argument people make for abortion is 'But how do you know it's even alive at conception, if it doesn't look human it's okay', This of course is logically and scientifically ridiculous because living things grow. A fetus grows if it wasn't alive why would it grow? Why would it need the umbilical cord to stay survive if it wasn't fully alive. So that is my opinion, I am curious what you all think.
Opinions are fine as long as they don't restrict other's freedoms. All pregnancies carry the risk of death. Women do not have to consent to it. Maybe you could explain the difference in an abortion if the woman was raped as opposed to an abortion due to consensual sex. NO other Anti-Choicer has ever done that. BC can fail. Women are under NO obligation to use BC. Why do you feel irresponsible people make good parents? So you consider pregnancy and childbirth as punishments for your idea of irresponsible behavior. No "child" is killed in an abortion. Yes, intelligent people "escape" the consequences of their actions all the time....if you risk driving a car and are injured do you refuse medical treatment. If you climbed a mountain, fell and were injured, are you expected to just lay their and die? If a fetus is it's own "entity" then it should be able to be removed from the woman and survive on it's own. NO one is should be forced to sacrifice their body to sustain the life of another. YOU don't have to why should a pregnant woman? In all my years of debating the abortion issue I have NEVER heard anyone say the fetus isn't alive. If it's it's "own entity" why does it need the umbilical cord? I think that like other Anti-Choicers you appear to want women punished for having consensual sex.....and don't care or don't realize the punishment you'd be giving this fetus you care so much about(which you don't seem to care about if it's there because of rape).
Yet another one without a uterus wanting to dictate to those of us with one what we can or cannot do with ours and it's contents. *yawn*
Just because I am a male doesn't mean I can't have a logical rational conversation about a socio political issue. What you just did is what's called a logical fallacy. If you want to address my argument please don't be a jerk. - - - Updated - - - what does this have to do with my argument in anyway.
I am for abortion in cases of sexual assault simply because the woman involved was forced into the situation she in no way voluntarily had sex she was forced into it. So by ethical logical standards I think in that case she should have the right to get an abortion. Unlike in situations where the woman voluntarily stuck a penis inside her vagina and then decides that she is going to kill a baby just because it is inconvenient for her. You also brought up a hospital/deadly situation the difference with that analogy and an abortion situation is that there is only one party involved in both. In an abortion situation there are two the woman and the fetus so what I am merely trying to do is take both sides into account and come up with a moral gray middle of the road idea for a solution to this issue that never seems to go away cause we can never agree.
Which shows that you do NOT care one little bit for the fetus at all.....the ONLY thing you care about is punishing women for having consensual sex (as I pointed out already) Pretty funny!!. When the woman is raped she "has a right to get an abortion". BUT If it's from consensual sex she "is going to kill a baby because it is inconvenient ".". NO, that's not how it goes.......either BOTH are "killing a baby" or neither are ( and NEITHER ARE) . Glad to help. There is only one "party" with rights in a pregnancy situation. My analogies are spot on. YOU don't want pregnant women to escape the consequences of their actions but want that freedom for yourself and everyone else. The agreement has been reached without your input. Abortion is legal with some protection of the fetus after viability. Care to address these other INCONVENIENT points : All pregnancies carry the risk of death. Women do not have to consent to it. Maybe you could explain the difference in an abortion if the woman was raped as opposed to an abortion due to consensual sex. NO other Anti-Choicer has ever done that. BC can fail. Women are under NO obligation to use BC. Why do you feel irresponsible people make good parents? So you consider pregnancy and childbirth as punishments for your idea of irresponsible behavior. No "child" is killed in an abortion. Yes, intelligent people "escape" the consequences of their actions all the time....if you risk driving a car and are injured do you refuse medical treatment. If you climbed a mountain, fell and were injured, are you expected to just lay their and die? If a fetus is it's own "entity" then it should be able to be removed from the woman and survive on it's own. NO one is should be forced to sacrifice their body to sustain the life of another. YOU don't have to why should a pregnant woman? In all my years of debating the abortion issue I have NEVER heard anyone say the fetus isn't alive. If it's it's "own entity" why does it need the umbilical cord? I think that like other Anti-Choicers you appear to want women punished for having consensual sex.....and don't care or don't realize the punishment you'd be giving this fetus you care so much about(which you don't seem to care about if it's there because of rape). LEARN TO QUOTE PROPERLY NOTE TO ALL: The first paragraph of the post of mine quoted in post 7 is NOT MY WORDS OR STATEMENT!!!!!
You are entitled to your own opinion when it comes to abortion. You are NOT entitled to impose your opinion on anyone else when it comes to abortion.
Consider this: Authoritarians seek to forcibly impose their genuine best intentions for themselves onto everyone else at the point of a government gun. Authoritarians are a far greater danger to liberty, even if their 'best intentions' are genuine. Another poster herein said something like: "Opinions are fine as long as as they don't infringe the freedoms of others.", and he is quite correct, though I do wish that leftists would apply that sentiment uniformly. For you to form a logical opinion on this topic is expected and proper; we all do. For you to then impose your opinion upon me by force of law is quite another thing. Authoritarians are the enemy of liberty.
Ok guys fair enough. I suppose I should go back to the "drawing board" and try to think about this issue again because clearly there is a lot I haven't considered. I appreciate all of your opinions and I appreciate the debate.
Great. The next time you are pregnant, you can choose to complete the pregnancy for whatever reasons you want. Others can choose to terminate the pregnancy for whatever reasons they want.
I'd like to add a thought as something more for the topic creator to consider. Bodily integrity is the inviolability of the physical body and emphasizes the importance of personal autonomy and the self-determination of human beings over their own bodies. It considers the violation of bodily integrity as an unethical infringement, intrusive, and possibly criminal. So what this means is that a I can not be compelled to do anything to/with my body that I do not consent to. A popular example of this is that I can not be forced to donate blood to save the life of another human being. A simple procedure, one far safer than carrying a child to term, can not be forced on me. Even if the reason the person needs blood is my fault (ie. I am at fault in a traffic accident.) My right to bodily integrity trumps any other person's right to life. This is the case for a fully grown adult, and it is the case for a pregnant woman and an unborn fetus. Stating otherwise advocates violating bodily integrity.
My own view is that an egg and sperm are simply part of the reproductive system of humans, nothing at all of value itself. The egg becomes fertilized, either intentionally or unintentionally, during sexual intercourse. The fertilized egg, the conceptus, implants in the uterine lining or is naturally aborted. Studies estimate as many as 60%-70% of conceptions are spontaneously aborted (http://humupd.oxfordjournals.org/content/8/4/333.full.pdf), 30% fail to implant, 30% first trimester miscarriage, 10% clinical miscarriage. The morality of abortion isn't whether human life begins at conception. There is no doubt in science that human life begins at conception. It is more a matter of when should it be valued as a developing human life requiring moral consideration. The only way I know how to approach it is to eliminate periods of time that valuing a fetus would be unreasonable. For me, it would be unreasonable to value a fetus in the first trimester simply for the fact that so few conceptions make it in to the second trimester. http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/65/ss/pdfs/ss6512.pdf There were 700,000 abortions perfomed in the US in 2013. 91.6% of all abortions take place in the first trimester. 7.1% of all abortions take place in the second trimester. 1.3% of all abortions take place in the third trimester.
Good point. I hadn't seen that before I posted. Since the OP is open minded, I'll add some more. Legally, in the USA, the choice to terminate a pregnancy in the first two trimesters is protected under the Constitutional right to privacy (current Federal law). Put another way, it's nobody's business why someone would choose termination or choose completion of a pregnancy. The reasons are not relevant.
I don't know if I have changed my mind yet, but as a person who values my open mindedness I certainly took in to account all of your points and am currently trying to work out the logic and ethics in my mind to come up with a new view on the issue.
Your absolutely right and I sincerely apologize for name calling. It was uncalled for and unintellectual I hope you will accept my apology.
to answer your question no I am twenty two, I am in colllege with loads of debt and work at McDonald's so no I have not adopted any children. Why do you ask? And what relevance does it have?
Taking the position that others should not be allowed to have an abortion and not being willing to offer your home, love, and about 26+ years of parenting shows an extremely low level of caring. There are already thousands of kids that will never see the inside of a loving home. You would add many more, but want others to carry the burden. The relevance is that it shows the difference between sincerely caring for human life, and wanting the appearance of caring. I respect your work ethic and wish you success.
