Why is there so much abstention in USA ?

Discussion in 'Civil Rights' started by VotreAltesse, Mar 6, 2017.

  1. AlNewman

    AlNewman Well-Known Member

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    Bitcoin, what a joke. Just a digital version of the Rothschild banking illusion. Mined, like the "miner" that went broke? Like the value that fluctuates like a rubber ball, much faster than even that scam currency scheme. Speaking of value, what value does bit coin even have? That a limited number will result in a case of those that have selling to those that don't have for whatever sums the market will bear, in other words beyond the reach of most.

    So how will that provide anything?
     
  2. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Drug dealers seem to like it, so I guess it will buy them some blow.
     
  3. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    For a lot of reasons. She got the parti she lead (the FN) from her father Jean-Marie Le Pen. And his father wasn't exactly an angel. He was famous for his racist jokes against jews and all minorities, to have called the slaughter of jews, gays and other minorities during WW2 a "detail of History".
    Some people who worked with german participated in founding the parti she lead. And I let you guess than in the whole europe, having worked with german during WW2 is one of the biggest infamy you could imagine. Most french aren't ready to vote for a parti who is linked with the vichy government.
    However Marine Le Pen worked a lot to change the image of her parti, to something more honourable.

    But deeply, what I don't like with her is the fact that her biggest argument is "I'm better than the other".
    What she proposes is deeply poor and I can't trust her. We have a big problem of corruption and different excess from our elected leaders. Most french are cross and tired of that situation, but the only thing she proposes is "I'm better and trust me". She is herself concerned in two different corruption cases.

    I think EU is becoming a bigger and bigger problem, and the EU is transforming slowly from an utopia of peace to an antidemocratic "union".
     
  4. petef56

    petef56 Well-Known Member

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    The short answer is that Americans have become apathetic.
    History often repeats due to human nature that never seems to change.

    The average age of the world's great civilizations has been 200 years.
    These nations have progressed through the following sequence:

    * From bondage to spiritual faith
    * From spiritual faith to great courage
    * From great courage to liberty
    * From liberty to abundance
    * From abundance to selfishness
    * From selfishness to complacency
    * From complacency to apathy
    * From apathy to dependence <---We are almost here!
    * From dependence back to bondage

    Hopefully with a new president things can be reversed.

    --pete--
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2017
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  5. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That doesn't shock me, here in France we have elections for :
    _ Mayors (7 years)
    _ Departemental (six years)
    _ Regional (six years)
    _ Europe (5 years)
    _ President (5years)
    _ One of the parliament (2 weeks after the president) (5 years).
    Sometimes Worker Union.

    However, if 80 % of the people vote for the president election, parliamant and the mayors, it's not rare that only 50 % of the people vote for the other one.
     
  6. Taxpayer

    Taxpayer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have confidence you can achieve comprehension, if you try.

    Freedom is the ability to act without restraint, anarchy is the absence of regulation. Anarchy would therefore offer a great deal of freedom, as regulation restrains.

    There's often a downside to anarchy. His freedom to do whatever he wants, means he's free to shoot you in the head or otherwise create problems that you may want to avoid.

    Many folks choose to cooperate instead. Cooperation requires agreement. Agreements reduce options to act contrary to those agreements, less freedom. But you may avoid some of the downsides to anarchy.


     
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  7. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I thinks it's insane to wait too much from a president, even the best president ever will never be able to change a "wrong" way of thinking.
    Furthemore, I would be curious where did you get that average.

    I would disagree on many thing on that sequence, because It would be hardly practical with some ancient civilizations like Romans or Egyptian.
     
  8. petef56

    petef56 Well-Known Member

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    how so?
    Were those considered a democracy??? I'm thinking no.

    My bad,I left out the part of the quote that stated a democracy.


    A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government.
    It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote
    themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment
    on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the
    most money from the public treasury, with the result that a
    democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by
    a dictatorship.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2017
  9. AlNewman

    AlNewman Well-Known Member

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    Wrong as usual. Freedom is not without restraints and anarchy is not about lack of rules. And anarchy does not offer anything that is not already possessed.

    Your vision of freedom would be the perversion of the word much as your conception of anarchy. And yet you still continue to babble what you obviously don't comprehend. Cooperation as you state it becomes a dirty word. Sounds like those utterances of the morally deranged. But then....
     
  10. AlNewman

    AlNewman Well-Known Member

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    While your quote has has been attributed to one Alexander Fraser Tytler, the founding fathers also used this same conclusion in choosing a republic. But then there is the quotation: “The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.” ― Alexis de Tocqueville, supposedly misattributed.
     
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  11. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You spoke about great civilizations not democracies.

    I would personnaly class the democracy between six categories :
    _ Non democratic countries with no fundamental law. The leader of the country can do whatever he want without restrictions.
    _Non democratic countries with some fundamental law. I would for that rather search in the paste rather in the present. It's the case for France before 1789, even if the king had an almost absolute power, they were some parliamants and even the kid had to respect some rules. One of those rules, even anecdotic is really surprising : the king weren't allowed to be part of a funeral cortege. Louis XVI didn't had the possibility to assist the funeral cortege of his beloved oldest son.
    _ Countries with a right to vote, but he is extremly restricted : either to an ethnicity, or to people who can "buy" the right of vote. They were a lot of tax-based voting system in the past. It was the case of the antique Greece or Rome and at the beginning of the american republic or the french one.
    _ Representative democracy : everybody has the right to vote (but not the minors) to name some representants. It's the case of most democracies in the world.
    _ Direct democracy : everybody has the right to vote, but the people can at any moment dismiss their leaders by referendum or propose to the people laws without having to refers to the parliamants.
    _ Perfect democracy (an utopic impossible state of democracy) : their is no parliamants, the country is the parliamants and every citizen vote for the laws.
     
  12. Taxpayer

    Taxpayer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    anarchy
    • a state of lawlessness or political disorder
    • absence or denial of any authority or established order
    • absence of order

    If you do not have an absence of order, anarchy offers you that.


     
  13. Taxpayer

    Taxpayer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Trump seems ahead of the game on that one.


     
  14. AlNewman

    AlNewman Well-Known Member

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    That is what dictionaries have been saying all the way back to the 1828 Webster's, but like many things in this world, it is at odds with reality. But as the word is of Greek origin, then perhaps the word like many in the world leading to tyranny has been subverted. Here is an excellent dissertation on that phenomena for the word anarchy:

    Here one can see the perversion of the word that is designed to seek to undermine and destroy, funny how all of these are by government decree via the judicial. Going back to the article:

    That about says it all, I need add nothing more except to read more: The Last Bastille
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2017
  15. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Please, if you want to talk about anarchy, open a new thread. The topic here is : Why is there so much abstention in USA ?
     
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  16. Taxpayer

    Taxpayer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Words aren't real. They are labels we share and use to express ideas. If we agree a word means something, then it means that thing.

    Dictionaries don't enforce meaning on people, they report what most people intend for a word to mean. If the dictionaries have been reporting a clear meaning of the word for almost a 100 years, it seems people have come to a consistent agreement on the meaning.

    You can choose to use words differently and that new usage may catch on. But until it does, people may not understand what you are trying to say.



     
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  17. AlNewman

    AlNewman Well-Known Member

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    No the meaning of a word only changes only to the brain dead not wanting to understand or be understood. Changing the meaning of a word is but a method the dumb down a society to a state where there is no reality remaining, like that society occupied by the progressive liberals of today. A society so ignorant they buy anything presented to them without question. All as so well written by Wells in his book "1984".

    But it's nice that you point out just where YOU fit in the scheme of things.​
     
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  18. petef56

    petef56 Well-Known Member

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    Well said, AlNewman! I have not read the book "1984", but what you stated above coincides with the information and experiences of Charlotte Iserbyt and Jeanie Georges. There is much online from these 2 women. I highly recommend beginning with the 2 video's below. --pete--

    Charlotte Iserbyt: The Miseducation of America
    Uploaded on May 27, 2011
    Charlotte Thompson Iserbyt served as the head of policy at the Department of Education during the first administration of Ronald Reagan. While working there she discovered a long term strategic plan by the tax exempt foundations to transform America from a nation of rugged individualists and problem solvers to a country of servile, brainwashed minions who simply regurgitate whatever they're told.


    Charlotte Interviews Jeannie Georges
    Published on May 12, 2014
    Charlotte interviews Jeannie Georges about the history of Higher Order Thinking Skills aka HOTS, a product of Robert Marzano's controversial Tactics for Thinking and the RISC program.
     
  19. AlNewman

    AlNewman Well-Known Member

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    I am very familiar of the works of Charlotte Iserbyt. But she barely scratches the surface of the dumbing down of this country by indoctrination instead of education. The whole phenomena began in 1850 when the Army was used to round up the children and usher them to the first state sponsored education in New York. There the curriculum was modified to eliminate "civics" and instill "government". It has been a slow and steady downhill slide since then.

    But if you desire to have education defined, I would recommend the works of Thomas Jefferson, not as the founder of the University of Virginia but his work on William and Mary University.
     
  20. petef56

    petef56 Well-Known Member

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    Although it's always good to know past history, the further back in time one goes to prove a point, the less effective it is in convincing others what is happening today. That's why I'm always looking for current information that reveals what's happening today as the starting point (or selling point) and then look deeper from there.

    With that said, any info (or links) that you have that explains who or what is causing the dumbing down of America via the institutions of education today, would be greatly appreciated.

    What I'd like to know is how are the modern day Liberals getting their influence and control into the public schools and universities. Who funds them, organizes them, and leads them? What is the ultimate goal?

    Maybe we should start a new thread. --pete--
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2017
  21. AlNewman

    AlNewman Well-Known Member

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    I would totally disagree with you, the further back in time you go the clearer the validity of the conclusion. What you are proposing is but pandering to the idiots. That proves no point except for your desire to start from a position of weakness especially when one stops to consider that most current information has been tempered by the concept of dumbing down.

    You cannot sell knowledge, you cannot tell knowledge, knowledge is only accessed by involvement. If one is not willing to become involved you have the dumbing down and today's world. This is the prime issue with abstention, most for the reason of disgust but a small minority for the reason that it doesn't apply to them.

    To truly understand the concept of not applying would require an understanding of freedom, sovereignty, and most important a republic. In the words of Thomas Jefferson as moderated by others:


    As to the rest, yes a new thread would be required.
     
  22. Taxpayer

    Taxpayer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are mistaken. Language, like any other tool, evolves to suit our changing world and our changing needs. If not, we would be limited to expressing only the ideas that existed when humans first started to use spoken language.

    The book 1984 was written by George Orwell.

     
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  23. AlNewman

    AlNewman Well-Known Member

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    Mistaken, only in your little world.

    But thanks for the correction on "1984" as those interested will now find the correct author.
     
  24. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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    I only had time to read page #1. I'll come back and read more later. Here's my input for now.

    https://chomsky.info/20041011/
    (excerpt)
    ----------------------------------------
    On the eve of the year 2000 presidential elections, a large majority of the population dismissed it as unrelated to their interests and concerns, regarding it as a game played by wealthy contributors and the Public Relations industry, which trains candidates to focus on “values” and “personal qualities,” and to keep away from issues. There are good reasons for that. On many important issues, there is a considerable gap between an elite consensus and popular opinion, as polls reveal. Voting is heavily skewed towards the more wealthy. Years ago it was shown by leading political scientists that non-voters — about half the population — have a socioeconomic profile rather like those who vote for labor-based and social democratic parties in Europe, but feel that they are not represented in the US.
     
  25. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    You can mail in a voters ballot once registered which you can do once in most states so where is the excuse not to vote, especially if one is poor its the one weapon we have to set policy is voting in people who will do what we want by sheer numbers and vote those out who won't.
     

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