Why is there so much hate, and why is the country (US) so divided?

Honest question - it's simply crazy to me.

Shouldn't this be the greatest country on Earth? If you have different opinions - ok fine, why can't you argue and discuss and come up with compromises in rational ways?

Has it always been this bad and maybe I'm just too young to remember? I don't remember politics being anywhere near this toxic in the past ~20-30 years - certainly not among the population.

 

Cheap paraphrase: The Union is composed of different peoples with radically different cultures all coming together. There's a changing of the guard happening and old school America is feeling pressed upon from every angle.

 

Basically what happened is that when Obama got elected that woke up all the racist's who realized that they better do something to keep that from happening again.

 

Previously we had wars that bound us. Now that we don’t we have turned internal.

 

There used to always be political divisions. What has changed recently is that the opposition is viewed as the ultimate evil, a mortal enemy that wants the destruction of the country, and that must be fought at ALL costs, no matter how unethical the fight is. Why did it change? I blame social media.

 

I disagree with that theory, though, I must admit, it is an interesting one: the equivalent of why, in the modern, sanitized environment, so many auto-immune disorders are cropping up. Personally, I leaned more towards: "the times, they ARE
a' changin'--/ but I don't wanna learn
ANY new tricks."
But I suppose it is possible that the anxiety, created by uncertainty, (leading to fear, anger, & outburst) was previously focused on specific things like wars or arms races, allowing the nervous tension to be drained off, if only through vicarious participation. And anxiety can lead to auto-immune disorders! So maybe your idea IS half of the equation. I'll have to give it more thought.

 

I think it is pretty simple. Folks in the 50s and 60s enjoyed the fact that the world wasn't able to produce for themselves, so because we literally were the only nation left unscathed by the second world war, our ability to supply the world with stuff flourished. And, while that was happening, the ability to grow that always allowed folks who would tap that wealth to support government weren't able to significantly retard that growth. And then, the 70s hit. And suddenly there was sufficient competition that suddenly the demand for everything US started to slow down. But government didn't slow down,

At the same time, the democratic party in this country was also changing. They were becoming more and more devout as well as pervasive through out their party as they discovered the righteousness of government authority and socialism. And we've suffered ever since. There have been times when some on the right have been able to undo or unwind the burdens of our government, and our people flourished. And there are times when the yoke or burden of government is firmly rebound to the people. We are reentering such a period. And frankly this version brings with it far more burdens as expressed by the candidate, Biden, than even the Obama years couldn't have hoped for.

So, like the Chinese, democrats firmly believe that only their party can manage. They "feel" entitled, and as the elite, they believe in their own burdens to manage the people instead of simply supporting the freedoms and liberties of the people, they now fear the same people. And because they fear, they will try to use their power to suppress the people and their rights to make themselves feel more secure in their entitle elitism. We've all seen this movie before. And we all know how this ends badly for the nation and the people.

But, what we really have to face is that our democrats are aligned with a foreign power. China. And somehow the continuance of that road march towards party rule and subjugation is also now in the cards. Democrats and their policy would shackle our nation in the same way that the people of China have been. Have no doubt, this is the direction of the democratic party. Their continued use of the fear of other is only the beginning of the social fabric changes to our nation that they will attempt to force on our nation.

This is pretty much why this nation was founded in the first place. To escape these kinds of tyranny, to live in a community that respected the rights of all instead of just the elite. This, I believe, actually is the inflection point for the US.

 

It traces back to the repeal of the Fairness Doctrine, the consequent rise of right wing media/talk radio, and then the ability to spread lies/conspiracy theories after the development of the internet.

 

Social media, I'm sure, has done its fair share to exacerbate the situation (in fact, I'd be interested in reading your expounding upon its methods, if you're in the mood to). But, since the there have been those kinds of depersonalizing animosities, regarding some divisions, notably race, prior to social media (s.m., going forward), & since, even now, not all haters are addicted to s.m., there must be more to it, don't you think?

 

And now there is no place left to go. It's why it is so important that we make our last stand here. The US doesn't need to change. It needs to stay the way it has always been. A place of freedom and liberty to pursue success in your own life. If people want to live under authoritarian style socialist or even communist style regimes, there are plenty in Europe, Canada, China or Venezuela. Take your pick just leave us Americans to our freedom and capitalism.

 

Cool story bro.

 

Like the Russia hoax... like that? Somehow that wasn't right wing media/talk radio that spread that lie was it.... Will the left ever own up to their own horrors?

 

It is difficult to have rational discussions with folks who write posts like #7.

 

You guys need to check out how some other countries live apart from China and Venezuela.

That kind of thinking is in the minority now... So I can understand how that minority is bitter about it. Interesting times ahead.

 

Why do you folks keep referring to the Russia investigation as a hoax when it revealed multiple instances of unethical contacts between the Trump campaign and Russia? Some bordering on if not crossing the line in to illegal behavior. Additionally, Mueller found numerous instances of obstruction by Trump that could have resulted in indictments if not for the OLC prohibition against charging the prez with a crime.

 

I doubt you understand the US. As ostensibly you're Australian, why should we take your word for it. Your nation has certainly suckled at the Chinese teat for quite a while now. And suddenly, you think it would be wise to advise the US? When the Chinese say they intend to take dominion over the planet, what has Australia done to otherwise object or even act to stop or slow that goal?

 

Hmm.. because it was a hoax. Perpetrated by the DNC HRC 2016 campaign and democrats never actually proved a single collusion, abused the rights of many citizens in their witch hunt, charge folks erroneously and used the power of government to attack them. I know, you forgot all that. It's much like how democrats are currently attacking small business owners now.

 

You're right. Society has been fragmented for years, but it has recently had that process accelerated.

Decades ago at the altar of the drug prohibition, brothers testified against brothers and mothers. Children turned in parents for drug use.

Now is the mask wearing phenomenon. The rhetoric runs high as some suggest those not wearing masks should be sued or put in prison. Some zealots have gone as far as declaring those not wearing to be terrorists, even as they have been conditioned to see themselves as saintly and altruistic for wearing. Some have gone so far as pepper-spraying those not wearing masks.

I reckon it won't be long before the saints wearing will form lynch mobs to hang those not wearing.

 

It's the anonymity of social media. Just look at this forum, what kind of things are said, not just about the topics, but about the person of the opposing poster. Many of those things, you'd never dare to say to anyone face to face.

I don't exclude myself from the blame, I can play this game too. In my earlier traveling days, I had many conversations with total strangers in airport bars. In those situation, you know nothing about their politics. Whenever the conversation went into politics, I was sure to appear as moderate as possible. In an internet conversation, none of that matters. You can label the opposing poster as evil or as anti-American, China loving, (insert your favorite slur), without repercussions. I am sure most of us would get along quite fine if we drank a beer together in person, even being from opposing sides of the political spectrum.

 

Allow me....no it has not always been this way. Most had a deep understanding and respect for the Founding of this country. We disagreed on many surface issues , but deep down we were all Americans and loved our Heritage. Socialism/Communism was just a boogeyman that only a few Hollywood types entertained.

Today it is a different story. Globalism is sought after in deference to our own way of life. Large corporations are after the $$$ no matter what it does to our country. Communist China is the Big Player. Their $$ and influence is on the verge of enslaving us. We turn a deaf ear as to how China treats their own, or how they care about the planet. It's all about how bad America is for us all. 20-30 years ago many of us saw this taking place. It was happening. Today it is very apparent. You can't mix oil and water. Doesn't happen. I had an ancestor say once "Live Free or Die". I see it happening.

 

The Fairness Doctrine really had nothing to do with the shift in media talk radio, there was a fundamental shift in the market that caused a rise in the right of center talkers.

When I worked at WNWS we had two major talkers, both rather left leaning and both pulled decent ratings and very seldom did anyone request time under the FD, the format for both where the same, local events, some national events and interviews, the format never changed and as a result became boring, listeners wanted something different.

Then at about the same time as the FD was repealed a little known talker, Rush Limbaugh was syndicated, he was different then the norm for talk radio, he didn't do interviews, blended local events into national events and trends and bucked the old ways of doing talk radio, at first a lot of listeners didn't know what to think of him, but the more they listened, love him or hate him they couldn't change stations or turn off the radio and his numbers reflected that fact.

Others in talk took notice as he was eating their lunch for every point he went up they dropped 2 or more, survival kicked in and many of some of the most hard core left leaning talkers moved to other stations and flipped overnight to right leaning talkers.

I know a guy who one of the most popular left leaning talkers in the U.S. on the air he tipped the station so far left, you had to lean to the right to walk down the hallway without tipping over, off the air he was hard core right, a totally different person and throughout his life had always leaned to the right, which at the time was odd for a gay man, but he is an excellent actor and did left leaning talk like he believed every word that passed over his lips.

Wanting to stay relevant, employed and making decent money, he left our station in Miami, flipped his show hard right and moved to one of the oddest places in the U.S. to air a right leaning show, Southern California, an area that made South Florida seem to be hard right, which it no longer was and hasn't been seemingly most of my life.

Another thing about him was he understood the in and outs of talk radio and seemed to know where the next money making market was going to be and as it turned out the CA market was ripe for something new and different and he did very well.

Now as for the FD, in reality is was a yoke that really stifled talk radio, it kept it in the boring non-controversial middle, controversial subjects which needed to be talked about where avoided, no program director wanted to have to turn over a quarter hour to some person who had a different point of view, but lacked the talent and speaking skills to express himself, without putting the audience to sleep or causing them to punch a button to change stations, as such when someone invoked the FD they would be given a time slot either very late at night or in the wee hours of the morning, because of that the FD did little or nothing to allow the expression of "other points of view" to be heard by other than a few insomniacs, or drunks trying to drive home.

 

Your first paragraph has some merit but failed to address the obvious. In that environment, the changing world market, how does the “elite” maintain their status?

Government is merely a tool people manipulate. How was it manipulated?
Our revelations in economic theory realized in the 80’s was the biggest driver. There were other manipulations notably in campaign finance (SC decision) that proceeded it and aided the process.

There is a lot we’ve got to change to clean up our system so it’s responsive to all of us rather than the few. Our current environment—the division—merely functions to maintain those manipulations.

There isn’t a deep state but rather fellow citizens pursuing their self interest above all else. If there is anything to learn from the Trump experience it’s the immense power WE hold. Our “ representatives” will do god awful things out of fear of us. Now all we need to do is learn to utilize the power wisely to get the country we want.

Contrary to popular opinion we’re not that divided on the basics.

 

Obama kicked this off. I know a lot on the left will disagree, but Obama truly did usher in the "hate America" sentiment. I know it already existed in academia. Many parents didn't know their children were being sent off to universities and coming back home hating America and the way they were raised. Obama brought it to the mainstream. He started saying it as POTUS and the mainstream media jumped on the bandwagon and things got worse with every year of his presidency. Whats was worse, was if you had a problem with Obama's anti-American sentiments, it wasn't because you loved the country, it was because you were a dirty rotten confederate loving American racist. They(the left) could see no other reason why you could disagree with him. Once people saw that this was becoming popular mainstream, social media took it from there and now it's popular to hate America and call it a racist country and judge it only by the negative things that ever transpired in this country.

 

And they are now gearing up for their reaction to Kamala Harris being Vice President. Get ready to see and hear some very vile things.

 

Well there's a conversation in what you just said, but I, honestly, had wanted to add a few more examples of depersonalization which, not just people generally, but Americans, have shown towards one another, pre-internet.

Besides race, the U.S., despite the Melting Pot Myth, has long boiled over w/ hatred for those of foreign ethnicities & nationalities. And I'm not just referring to Chinese immigrants, or Japanese Americans, but Slavic & Eastern European peoples, Italians, even the Irish, for god's sake, because they are so foreign to people of English heritage. And all these people, we saw in person, at least on the street.

Then, class has been a major divider in our society. And not just the late 19th & early 20th century, rich industrialists who treated their workers as an expendable commodity. Poor & middle class people hooked their wagons to that class & became their strike-breakers, for instance, beating the hell out of our fellow citizens. In fact, there are some here on PF who maintain a semblance of that Industrialist attitude today (one whose icon/picture even looks like it's from thay age).

So, w/o even needing to mention religion, it should be clear we're not in totally alien territory. Therefore, it seems to me, in trying to understand this current iteration, a good place to start would be the distinguishing characteristics of today's demonization of others based on their POLITICAL PARTY & certain ISSUE-STANCES, as well as by GEOGRAPHIC LOCATION.