Discussion in 'Abortion' started by Thrasos, Mar 4, 2020.
In what circumstances do you think a woman would be "FORCED" into carrying a baby against her will?
Except after 23 weeks! At which point they suddenly loose the "right to their body!"
YOU'RE placing a time limit on women! 23 weeks!
There wasn't even an hour in between your above quoted post and your post directly before it. You call THAT silence? Yeah, we'll see who goes silent PERMANENTLY!
To be fair, @FoxHastings isn't talking about rape cases, but rather abortion in general. Wow, I didn't think that I'd ever come out in defence of Fox!
That is an argument of black & white extremes, FoxHastings.
Since we are both extremists (albeit on opposite ends of the spectrum), I think I can agree with you here (in a way). When the fetus is clearly and 100% a human being, completely and 100% worthy of protection due to its inherent state of being, then it is wrong to abort. It doesn't matter what caused the situation.
Now, in the actual case of normal abortions, the fetus might be slightly less than 100% worthy of protection due to being a human being, and that is when things like pregnancy resulting from rape can potentially come into play, and "tip the scales", so to speak.
As we all know, and as should be obvious to anyone who thinks about it, there is not just some single point in time where one moment the fetus is not a human being person at all, and the very next moment it 100% is.
What I mean, for example, is that an abortion at a certain age of gestation might be equivalent to a "half murder". Or a fractional murder if it is done before that.
That is why pro-lifers can be consistent in making exceptions, if they are very particular about the time frames.
(Yes, I would agree with you, a pro-lifer would be inconsistent if they said abortion due to rape is okay at any point in the pregnancy.)
And a pro-lifer who says abortion should allowed in the case of rape if it happens after 20 weeks is either extremely ignorant about gestational stages of development or is hypocritical.
And how long would a psychological evaluation take?
Only in some states is it for any medical reason - it might only be the RADICAL New York. It's always AT LEAST when the mother's life is in danger - as in she could die.
Which doesn't mean that abortion is murder at EVERY stage in the pregnancy.
Correct, just as I don't believe that ABORTION has nothing to do with healthcare. You however DO think that abortion is healthcare!
No, just as I don't think it's wrong to forbid a woman to have her BORN child killed if she judges it necessary.
Oh, so you wouldn't say that women have the right to abortion?
Sure, they're the same in those aspects. That doesn't mean they are the same in EVERY aspect!
Sorry, is this thread specifically about abortion in the US?
Women have up to 23 weeks to make such an important decision.
It's THEIR decision so they take as long as THEY feel it necessary.
Anyone ever put a time limit on YOUR decisions?
How much time do you spend thinking up these bizarre ideas about women?
The 23 week limit was a compromise with the slobbering vicious Anti-Choicers who wanted to ban abortion altogether.
It OK with me because as I stated most abortions are done way before that and women CAN HAVE abortions after 23 weeks if it's a medical necessity so they do NOT lose the right to their body.
I really have no idea what your point is on abortion but then I've never really seen a point in any of your posts..
As George Carlin put it...."they're not pro-life, they're anti-women"
Please do NOT speak for me. Speak for yourself.
FoxHastings said: ↑
That is why when Anti-Choicers say they'd make an exception in the case of rape they blow their cover, they don't really think a fetus is "precious life"....they just want to punish women who have consensual sex..
I am not an extremist.
It is NOT extreme to believe women should have the same rights as everyone else as I do.
Only sexists would think women having rights is "extreme"
It does not matter whether abortion is due to rape or consensual sex, women have a right to end the pregnancy.....
A human fetus is always human ...it becomes a human BEING as in "person" only at BIRTH.
A fetus has rights when it is BORN and not before.
What is an abnormal abortion?
What "we" know for a FACT is that a fetus is not a person with rights until birth.
Abortion due to rape has the same procedure and outcome (and laws) as an abortion due to consensual sex.
IF Anti-Choicers think abortion due to rape is A-OK but say that women who are pregnant due to consensual sex should lose their rights and be denied an abortion then they ARE saying women who have consensual sex should be punished by losing their rights and be forced to gestate.
FoxHastings said: ↑
Easy, if a pregnant woman comes to the doctor demanding a 9 month abortion she is given a psychological evaluation because normal, mentally stable women don't do that.
So you couldn't refute my statement. Good.
IF you put some thought into it you'd know that a woman demanding an abortion at 9 months wouldn't need a lengthy evaluation.....and length of time it takes is certainly not a "point"
FoxHastings said: ↑
The PROCEDURES and OUTCOMES of the abortions are the SAME.
Whether it's a fetus due to rape or a fetus due to consensual sex they both die.
Another pointless reply.
Yup, abortion has been around for thousands of years and, legal or not, will continue.
Which she does, it's her body not yours.
And HOW will that stop them?
Baloney, it doesn't.
Where does it say that in the bible?
Yup, even women.
Then I suggest you take another look at the world....you seem to have missed a lot.
It certainly isn't YOUR choice
So you want to punish her by forcing her to gestate....ridiculous.
No, she doesn't have a right to kill a baby but she has a right to kill her fetus.
"First child" ? Why would you assume that?
Fine, if the woman is paid a handsome fee for endangering her life, suffering pain and permanent damage to her body, financial losses, possible job losses all to give it up for adoption which may never happen.
It doesn't cost thousands of dollars and is much cheaper than going through 9 months of pregnancy and delivery...those cost thousands and raising a kid? THOUSANDS MORE..
It is reasonable that an adult involved in a nine month process be assumed to have the decision making power whether or not to continue after the first three months. Of course, there could be exceptional intervening events, but in the vast majority of cases, this should apply. Many people could accept this as a general standard with expert counselling in place for extenuating situations.
That abortion is unfortunate should be understood and that avoiding it would always be the better outcome. It appears we need more effective education in the matter. We need increased acceptance by individuals of the consequences of their acts, and greater acceptance by society of individuals accepting such responsibility. As the case of child bearing is unique, we could simply place all onus on the woman for the fate of what is developing inside her.
Yes it does. The claim is not "Some abortion is Murder" - the claim is that all abortion is Murder.
"Abortion is Murder" = "Abortion is murder" whether it is in the early or later stages.
I refer you to the OP. Perhaps you can let me know if you find any mention of the US: http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/why-kill-the-innocent.569050/
Separate names with a comma.