@willburroughs, @FoxHastings, Your back and forth there discussing when and where abortion is legal and when it isn't is exactly why we need to put in place an agreement such as the following: http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/pf-abortion-reform-compromise.550627/ As you guys may understand the current law to be a certain way, while others interpret it differently. You may know that abortions are allowed at a particular time in certain places, but not everyone may get that due to the somewhat patchwork nature of what we currently have on the books. And the confusion that can stem from that, I think creates a lot more friction and controversy surrounding this issue than is really necessary. Clear guidelines, or at least a clearly stated upper/lower bound, bought into via agreement to a compromise, would go along ways towards improving things and reducing disagreement. -Meta
It is. It should be paid for like all other legal medical procedures. WHY? "Pro-Lifers" are against abortion because "all life is precious", "abortion is murder"......why would they make an exception for rape ? An abortion due to rape is EXACTLY the same procedure and outcome as an abortion due to consensual sex. NO, American women should have the same rights throughout America that everyone else has. Wow, there's some BIG government oversight!...and huge loss of freedom and liberty! Simple, abortions should be paid for like any other LEGAL medical procedure which is what it is. There would be no disagreement if everyone realized women have the same rights as everyone else and interfering bullies would just mind their own business.
i'm not exactly sure how someone is suppose to compromise on killing the innocent with any abortion. i mean, its not like balancing the budget.
Why should people view the killing of a single human cell as murder ? This makes no sense IMO. In the late stages of pregnancy I would agree that a human exists - such that one could legitimately claim murder but, not in the early stages of pregnancy.
How about you recognizing the fact that you have no idea if God even exists - never mind know that some God has a plan for each human prior to conception.
I have a question for you? Would you be willing to help a parent (physically, emotionally and/or financially) struggling to care for their child?
Abortion was illegal for a long, long time. It didn't STOP people from having abortions. It caused them to go to other extremes to terminate their pregnancies (metal coat hangers) or seeing back street "doctors" to have it done (which often resulted in infections and other health issues because those kind of places are not really "on the map" so there is no oversight).
That question should be answered by one that is equally absurd.....Would you be willing to abort/ end the life of a parent (physically, emotionally and/or financially) struggling to care for their child?
Back door doctors were and are criminal doctors. Do you think society endorsement of terminating babies increased the practice? I certainly do, and there was money to be made!!
MJ Davies said: ↑ I have a question for you? Would you be willing to help a parent (physically, emotionally and/or financially) struggling to care for their child? No, their question was not absurd....and yours is not an equal reply....but is absurd.. No one is suggesting ending the life of people, born, legal persons...
Please provide the actual quote from your bible where it says that. Why don't those that oppose abortion SUPPORT increasing the Minimum Wage so that they CAN afford to support their child? There are 400,000 kids WAITING to be adopted already. Adopt them FIRST before you INCREASE the numbers of kids WITHOUT parents. Please provide CREDIBLE nonpartisan FACTUAL substantiation to support that allegation.
Jeremiah 1:5 ""Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations." - New American Standard Version (1995) Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee, and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee; I have appointed thee a prophet unto the nations"
https://carm.org/what-does-the-bible-say-about-abortion Premise #2: The unborn is a person. It is this premise which is disputed by many in our culture today. However, the Bible clearly teaches that the unborn is a person due to the following reasons. Possession of Personal Attributes First, the unborn possesses personal attributes such as sin and joy. In Psalm 51:5, David says, “Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.” In Luke 1:44, “For behold, when the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby leaped in my womb for joy.” Described by Personal Pronouns Second, the Bible also uses personal pronouns to describe unborn children. Jeremiah 1:5 says, “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.” Matthew 1:20-21 states, “But when he had considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, ‘Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the Child who has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.’” Jesus: A Baby at Conception Third, regarding the conception of Jesus, Matthew 1:20 says, “But when he had considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, ‘Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the Child who has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.’” The fact that the angel tells Joseph that “the Child who has been conceived” is “of the Holy Spirit” indicates that Jesus certainly was a person at the moment of conception. Called Children Fourth, the unborn are called children. Luke 1:41 states, “When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit (1:44).”
Of course you know that could be comparable to monies paid to compensate for loss of life today in our legal system. In no way does it devalue life.
Good thing we're not a theocracy....religion doesn't rule our laws or our rights Doesn't matter if that ZEF can sit up and whistle Dixie....it's part of the woman's body and hers to do with whatever she wants
So, in your mind, those two questions are alike? The reality is it's easy to sit on the high horse and tell other people what they "should" be doing. Until you get in the ring and help a mother (and/or father) manage raising an unwanted child, or go into the legal field to help deal with the ungodly amount of child abuse and/or neglect cases or are willing to help somebody keep a roof over their child's head, you have NO right to tell them what to do with their body or unborn child. And, yes, I have done ALL those things for families in need and would gladly do it again. Either take a post or sit down.
Back door "doctors" were (and are) not ALL licensed medical doctors. That was the problem. Anybody with a rudimentary knowledge of human anatomy and, sometimes, not even that, were performing these procedures. Again, the legalization of abortion has provided women with SAFE and HYGIENIC medical care they would otherwise not have received when choosing to terminate a pregnancy.
So you help "unwanted children"? That is part of the problem. ....your viewpoint. You can pat yourself on the back all you want but!......NO CHILD IS UNWANTED!!!
When did I pat myself on the back? Beyond that, I would suggest you visit a few orphanages and look at all the "wanted" children living in them.
That's also false. MANY girls and women committed suicide due to feeling ashamed for being unwed and pregnant; resulting in two deaths.
You patted yourself on the back for all the people you've helped, so...... have you ever spoken up to youth about abstaining from sex until you find an accountable partner? Have you ever promoted family values?? Have you ever counseled marriages in trouble? See, that would get to the root cause of abortion and I wonder if you've done it? Only if you have, are you a part of the answer to killing children in the womb.
