Why kill the innocent?

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by Thrasos, Mar 4, 2020.

  1. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Slavery was done away with in the later 1800's. Wasn't that good?
     
  2. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Uh, who are YOU to determine what is right or wrong ?

    Ya, I know, this is just another question that will be ignored like the others because it's quite inconvenient for the person questioned....proving they have no point and no good argument :)


    Maybe to deflect , they'll go off topic with something like "slavery" ….oh, wait...;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
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  3. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Donor

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    I think I can answer the question.
    Because it's okay to demand endless impossibly unreasonable things from government (represented by the concept of "someone else"), but when it comes to women themselves, "how dare they be inconvenienced".

    Thus the complaints and outrage if government accidentally executes an innocent man in the course of applying the death penalty, but a complete 180 when it comes to fetal rights.

    I think it's fair to say, if the government were the one who had all the wombs, most people who are now pro-choice activists would be pro-life.


    I hope that's a pertinent insight into this seeming paradox.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
  4. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    People executed rightly or wrongly are all PEOPLE, BORN persons with rights.. and , as you've been told a hundred times, fetuses do NOT have rights.

    YOU have NEVER proven they do.

    LOL, you mean if everyone in government was female ? Then Pro-Choice would never be challenged :)
     
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  5. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    "Laws are made to be circumvented"? What an oddly cynical statement. Not to insure social order and protect the rights of its participants?
    And then you go all Pollyannaish, what a contrast. Expecting people to act against their own self interest is against human nature and has never reliably worked without religious or government suppression.
     
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  6. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Donor

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    And yet pro-choicers say we should "trust women, they know best".

    Just like proponents of slavery said everyone should trust slave owners to make the decisions over someone else's life, no accountability.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2020
  7. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    I would not say all women are intelligent, trustworthy or responsible but 95% of women who had an abortion think they made the right decision at the time. That sounds like a carefully considered decision. https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/01/4...rly-all-women-say-it-was-right-decision-study
    Are you trying to say the fetus should have the same rights as the woman?
     
  8. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    I know all of these people...

    A woman moved in with her boyfriend who is a registered sex offender. She didn't mind. Two weeks ago, both she and the man were arrested and the child was put into foster care. The man was released and now has the 14 year old without any supervision.

    A pregnant woman called her boyfriend because he was late picking her up from work. She tried several times. A coworker drove her home where she found him deceased with a needle in his arm and their toddler alone. People took up collections to help her with funeral costs and she used it to get a tattoo. Her second baby was taken as soon as she was born. Both babies were born with illegal drugs in their system and both were ultimately taken away.

    Another woman was pregnant with her 5th child (she is 24). She had custody of one, one was with her biological father and the other two were placed in foster care. It is expected that her unborn child will be taken away upon delivery as she will be born with illegal drugs in her system.​

    I am NOT advocating abortion, but society turns a blind eye to these type of cases. Is a child better off being born to people that don't want them and subjected to a life of chronic poverty, addictions and neglect? Should they be destined to a life of learned helplessness, chemical dependency and/or worse? Yes, adoption is an option but there aren't enough foster parents willing to take infants born as addicts. It's hard enough to get them to take care of children without that problem. These children will most likely be in/out of the system and released to their own devices when they reach the age of 18. We, as a society, are turning a blind eye to this problem and until it's addressed, there will always be people to funnel into the judicial system. Prisons are a FOR-PROFIT business so it's lucrative to keep sending people there. It's beyond toxic and dysfunctional.
     
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  9. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Why kill the innocent?

    I don't know , ask the people who refuse to wear masks to protect the lives of others......
     
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  10. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Of course laws are made to be circumvented. Precisely why there are penalties designed for when it happens.
     
  11. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    It took weeks to come up with that? The laws intent is to control actions. The intent is not for them to be there so they can be broken.
    And just skip over... "Expecting people to act against their own self interest is against human nature and has never reliably worked without religious or government suppression."
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2020
  12. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Laws attempt to....but do not control actions. It may modify behavior with the motive to avoid penalties, but the desire to break them is insurmountable, when the individuals desire to do "evil" IS his/her's self interest. Perhaps you don't believe evil exists.
     
  13. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Yes, and that's why it shouldn't be brought back by taking away women's right to bodily autonomy which would make them slaves..
     
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  14. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    The vast majority of humans follow laws, despite your dark beliefs, in order for society to work efficiently. Those that break the law are doing a cost benefit analysis but they may have poor judgement, no foresight or are mentally unstable.
     
  15. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We can see thousands of examples as to how many follow the laws. Look at the millions of illegal immigrants in our country. What is all that graffitti doing all over the place in major cities? What about the buildings , police cars, businesses and lives being destroyed right now? Aren't their laws against that stuff? As I said.....laws are made to be broken and they are.
     
  16. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    Your negativity is, thankfully, not contagious.
     
  17. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Point is, our system of government was designed to work for a moral society. A society who looked for a higher power to define right and wrong. Not to a government to define it for us. Is that what you want? A collective society to define what is right and what is wrong? Personally I don't need that.
     
  18. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    "A collective society to define what is right and what is wrong" has always been the case throughout history. Maybe you should stay in your own imagined world.
     
  19. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So you reveal your self imagined frame of reference. Thanks. We will just accept we disagree on life.
     
  20. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    No, tell me when its not been the case and the public has not revolted without suppression.
     
  21. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    .


    No, it wasn't....it was designed to prevent chaos in society.

    Not everyone's idea of a "moral" society is the same since everyone's morals are not the same.


    .


    Well hopefully to look to something more practical and real like common sense and justice.


    But that's what you just said you wanted....
     
  22. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Christianity was suppressed for centuries. The attempt is still there to suppress it but it still overcomes. America thrives only because a majority of the populace still believes there is an unseen "Entity" that watches and leads in rightful living. They don't require "laws" to lead them. Most all the founders understood that. Laws are for the "lawless".
    Ben Franklin even was quoted as saying "This new Republic is designed for the moral".
     
  23. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    :) So much easier to ignore facts and other icky things one doesn't want to face :)
     
  24. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Well maybe someday a Christian will be elected to Congress, or appointed as a Judge, or ... and I know this sounds
    crazy, maybe someday a Christian will be elected President. Until then, I guess you'll just have to suffer as
    an under-represented slave.

    WTF, dude.
     
  25. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    Make a list of the most successful countries and you will find they are the least religious and Christianity was suppressed for centuries is a ridiculous statement.
     
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