Why Sweden’s feminists are completely insane

I personally thank Sweden, they have done the social experiment for the rest of the world and give us a good idea of how far we should go to prop women up to reach a stated goal.

The goals they have tried to reach have actually been pushed away more and more as the government gets involved. The country is a perfect example of human behavior and how there is no way you can politically drive biology out of humans.

 

This all started with me being challenged to identify an instance where men have rights and women do not. Men, I pointed out, aren't forced to bear children they don't want. I happen to think women should have to inform the potential father early in her pregnancy and he should have the right to say he doesn't want a child and then have no financial or other responsibility.

Anatomy is destiny. I don't think men should be able to force women to abort.

You know where I stand.

I see no evidence most women are seeking an unfair advantage. Sure, there are misandrists.

I think you're overstating the case about women's advocates.

I think real feminism has gained "steam," especially amongst younger men. The few misandrists are finding to their chagrin that men are stepping up as fathers and that complaints about uninvolved dads means women are faced with increasing numbers of men serious about being fathers and having access to their children. Note to misandrists: be careful what you wish for.

I taught school (high school and adults) for three decades so you might expect I have some appreciation for the benefit of having a father around.

 

Grrr, damn typing from phone and getting the quotes right!, apologies in advacne

 

Wrong. There i no evidence of such systematic discrimination and the claim that there is such discrimination is one of feminisms many lies. These lies are one of the many reasons why few are feminists which in turn is what makes your accusations false.

Women have more control over their own bodies than men. For example women have legal protection against involuntary genital mutilation. Men do not.

Your anecdotal experience means NOTHING the fact is women choose to be care givers no one forces them to.

I am far smarter than you and proving it hence your resorting to childish insults when I destroy your argument with facts.

 

That is correct for once no one is forcing women to have sex, have babies or raise babies. Women CHOOSE to do so.

Yes people who want equality for women have gone way too far and continue to do so. The effort of feminists now is equality of outcome which is immoral and oppressive for both men and women. Women have equal rights to men and that is absolute fact. This is the only equality you can have. No one has the right to equality of outcome and when women have equal rights the differences between men and women become more pronounced.

The are not making reasonable demands when they demand equal pay for unequal work or demand the destruction of due process based on myths such as rape culture.

 

As usual, the media are sensationalizing activism and playing up the most outrageous "demands" and statements. Look at what happened in Ferguson, Missouri. There were hundreds of poor peoople socially engineered into public housing in the middle of a suburban community. What do poor people do when the little boxes they live in swelter in the summer? They go outside, mill around, and get into trouble. There's nothing to do in Ferguson because it's a suburb where people hang out in their own yards. So... when a fat bully goes into a store, intimidates the owner, then tangles with the cops, something tragic happens. A protest ensues in a few blocks on the main drag. Most of the now nearly black suburb do nothing. Outside activists stir up sh*t and still the protest is still confined to a few blocks. Even after the media show up--they all played it up, from the far left to the far right--it was still just a few blocks.

In the middle of this phony conflict, a Canadian news team interviewed a black man in his yard ONE BLOCK off the main drag and the guy said the worst of it was the police blocking off roads making it difficult for him to get to his TWO jobs. The street in the background had a number of manicured yards where people obviously look after their homes.

Now, that was the real story, not the hyped conflict. Remember the supposed "bra burning" in the late 1960s outside the Miss America contest? It never happened.

Sure, women are much more equal than they were years ago. Women even had a hard time getting credit on their own fifty years ago. But there is still a ways to go. And now we have men taking being a father more seriously. Women are finding equality involves changes some of them will have to accept.

Have you noticed most women have advanced from the "go girl" stuff? Women expect women to produce--none of this accepting whatever a woman does as wonderful.

 

Telling a woman she can't have an abortion is discrimination.

The worst thing that happens to a man is circumcision. Women are told what to do when they're pregnant and there's still a lot of female genital mutilation even in the U.S.

It's their fault they suffer from having a conscience. Stupido broads, huh?

You certainly don't lack confidence.

You make your pal Trump look humble.

 

Women are sometimes forced to have babies.

Only some have gone too far, not most.

Wrong about the "have babies."

Straw man alert!

Another straw man. I don't see most women making such a demand.

Yet another straw man.

 

That is a horrible argument, if you are going to use so called "Patriarchal ideals" in saying that only women have an imbalance in family life, then the accompanying idea of men have an imbalance of family life because they are expected to work and bring home the income fit as well.

This victim mentality is so pathetic of third wave feminism. "It's men's fault! It's the Patriarchies fault!"

Give me a break ....

To your numbers specifically, you are using a chart about "the unadjusted pay gap" which means absolutely nothing. Women and men are different, FULL STOP. The jobs that women tend to go after (see Sweden and STEM) tend to be more about people, less about tangential things like money and most importantly, those that pay less.

When you actually compare apples to apples, the "adjusted pay gap" is obviously the fair way to compare the two and stands at a touch over 94.6%, or in other words, basically nothing.

https://www.glassdoor.com/research/demystifying-the-gender-pay-gap/

If women do not want children, knock themselves out. But to try to say that it is men's fault and we should pay some women more through legislation, all because other women are going through "imbalances in family life" is absolutely stupid.

This is what I was talking about with third wave feminism, you literally just proved my point for me.

Feminists do not want the public to know the real number, so they simply lump "men" in one column and "women" in another, without any data sets, grouping or explanation at all. This is the LEAST scientific or accurate way you could ever do a study, no scientist would ever do this. And yes, I studied a STEM undergrad and did plenty of scientific work myself in the process.

Furthermore, your anti-male stance of implying men do not suffer from an "imbalance of life" is equally moronic and is sexist against men in general.

Next you are going to tell me women need help because they are more in debt at a younger age, all while ignoring the fact that colleges are SWARMED with a majority of women and the debt kids are taking on in school is a well publicized issue. Obviously if there are more women, THERE IS MORE DEBT.

Colleges went from 57% male, 43% female in 1970, to what is going to be just less than 60/40 women to men in 2019.

Yet still we hear incessant whining, bringing in actual legislative change in order to add more women to a pile that already outnumbers men 3 to 2. And still they push, going so far as to demonize any man who they see as "too masculine".

This for the moment is turning me into a single issue voter as the numbers are absolutely atrocious in women's favor in almost every category.

I bet you think that domestic violence is only a male thing don't ya? You know there have been studies that show women beat on men more than visa versa? After seeing at least a dozen studies, it seems pretty apparant that it is basically equal. Yet allllll we hear about is how evil men are and how toxic they are. If women are beating men at the same rate, shouldn't we call it "toxic femininity"?

Here are some more fun stats for you:

- 78% of homicide victims are male.
- Men die 5 years earlier on average
- Account for 92.6% of workplace deaths
- Receive 63% higher sentences for the same crime
- Women are three times as likely to be acquitted.
- 3 times as likely to commit suicide than women.
- 93.2% of all people in jail are men
- Men have twice the number of homeless to women.

My goal is not to whine and talk about how horrible men have it, it is to show that both sexes have different difficulties and using blanket statements like they have an "imbalance in family life" that holds them back is so horribly incorrect and flat out sexist.

Third Wave Feminism is doing HORRIBLE things to the relationship between the sexes and more and more men are sick and tired of being the target of opportunity to blame everything on.

The victim mentality of women is sad, my GF makes well over $100k and is an amazing partner. While we don't want kids, she is an amazing provider for me and is always concerned about my health and happiness. She is a 27 year old Progressive, her and her friends (many of which are gay) consistently laugh at 3rd Wave Feminism as they agree it has made men their age completely feminine as opposed to people a bit older at my age (36)

The charts show feminism is losing steam as less people then ever believe in it and are willing to call themselves feminists. The movement is running out of things to be a victim about and instead, using fake numbers to push a further agenda that will not bring equality, but will simply put more men under the bus. Thankfully, more and more women are seeing them as sexist as they look at women as helpless little creatures.

My gf is sure as heck not a helpless little creature, she is my equal and we use each others' strength to make up for our own weaknesses. A partnership, just like it has always been. Men and women are a complementary relationship and always have been. To try to make it seem like women should be everything and men should give up their traditional role is simply not taking hold.

/endrant

 

In western civilization women are not forced to have babies.

Most have gone to far hence most reject them.

I am not wrong about women being forced to have babies they are not.

I stated no straw man you simply hate facts learn what strawman means as you lack comprehension.

I never said anything about women making such demands FEMINISTS are making those demands once again you confuse the two and they are NOT the same.

 

Women can have abortions and no one has succeeded in telling them otherwise.

Circumcision is as bad as female genital mutilation. The difference, which you willfully ignore, is that men have NO protection against involuntary genital mutilation but women DO. The few cases of involuntary female genital mutilation in the US are ILLEGAL.

It matters not if one is male or female. Anecdotal evidence is NOT valid evidence and Trump is not my buddy.

 

Ha! Saying women are forced to have babies "sometimes" .... dear lord.

I am a pro choice guy and the majority of the nation, save the hyper religious tiny communities, has abortion rights. We fought that war and won, remember guys?

Meanwhile, a man has ZERO choice if he is to have a baby or not. You get a girl pregnant? It is 1000000% her choice as to what to do, I have two friends and have read thousands of stories about guys who had a drunken one night stand, the girl got pregnant and wanted to keep it. Then demand he pay for it.

Meanwhile, when the tables are turned, a woman can discard a baby without any consent from the man at all.

Men have ZERO power in this "transaction". Furthermore, courts HIGHLY favor women for both custody and child support/alimony payments. This is why we have so many single family households.

Oh yeah, those single family households are THE SINGLE BIGGEST SIMILARITY in violent crime.

There is absolutely nothing more imactful

 

lol, then of course, a Trump attack ....

My favorite thing about it is I am pro choice, didn't vote for Trump and have a very successful relationship with a gorgeous and successful woman who is a Progressive.

I don't think they realize how tiny the support for feminism has become with such absolutely insane arguments as she is providing above.

- Female mutilation? - men are mutilated FAR more often.

- Telling a woman she can not discard their baby is discrimination, but of course if a man doesn't want the baby he is called a horrible man and god knows what else.

- Women are "told what to do when their pregnant" .... what? This must be a type as I have ZERO clue what this could mean. Anyways, she gets slaughtered here too, men are told what to do IN COURT, with their money and their time what they are forced to do. The difference is men will be taken to jail if they don't do it.

Feminism is dying, thank god. It accomplished it's mission and now women are free to do whatever they want, date whoever they want and work whenever they want. We are going to have a massive problem with men failing in 15-20 years, mark my word. The seeds feminism planted in the 2000's was so over the top that they will have a massive advantage over their male counterparts.

I have a feeling that was the plan all along, but that's fine, I don't care. We can give women a leg up so they can "catch" men, which they have now done. I just hope the anti-feminism trend continues and we can agree that men and women can do whatever they want, EQUALLY

 

You called whites rednecks, that is equal to calling blacks the N word. Blatant racism.

I sure as hell don't back Social Democrats who for some reason have Islam as their pet project, they can basically do no wrong and be no evil. But that has nothing to do with being racist against whites as openly as you are doing. By repeating those statements, you make those white people racist against minorities, then the vicious cycle continues.

If we want to stop racism, it needs to be stopped completely and equally.

And trust me, they would be more than happy to have a gun fight with you, that is 100% certain.

 

oh ja, sure. unlike the imported religion of peace, which is totally not misogynist or fascist.

if these dimwits think they'll be better off under Sh'aria, than living amongst 'nationalistic' Swedes, they really are thoroughly bonkers.

 

Yes there is massive reproductive inequality but it favors women at the expense of men.

Some bold people have proposed a parental obligations and rights surrender law to increase equality. Essentially under such a law is a single man gets a woman pregnant she would be obligated to inform him during the first trimester ( the same window she has to have an abortion ) during that time he would have the right to surrender all legal and financial obligations while also surrendering any parental rights. Essentially he would have the right to abandon the mother and child.

Most people's reaction is that this would be heinous because it would allow single men to become legally protected deadbeats. However this reaction ignores the fact that most abortions are done for one form or another of convenience for the woman. Which means abortion is equally a permanent abandonment of the child. IF women can abandon parenthood by choice then men should have at least somewhat equivalent rights. OF course the main issue would be it leaves out married men who also have no rights should their wife choose to have an abortion or keep the child.

Many believe such a law would increase the burden of single mothers but I think this terribly underestimates women. If single women are faced with the reality that a man who get's them pregnant can walk with no consequences I believe that the vast majority of single women would avoid getting pregnant. They are not stupid.

I don't ever see such a law passing but the reaction people have to such a proposal speaks volumes about feminism.

 

I think that would be very fair, the fact of the matter is women have 100% control and men 0%. It is completely unfair especially when talking about a decision that will change your entire life.

I support that just like I support abortion rights for women. Both sexes should get to chose, not just women.

Most of the things that feminists and their supporters come up with completely underestimates women. If you or I or any man were to say some of these things you would be labeled a sexist pig or whatever else.

I agree with your last statement, or at the very least it would make a lot of women think twice about having a baby "just to have a baby". It would likely increase their decision to us proper birth control which a lot of women (and men) don't.

I can see the argument now though....

"Men made their bed, they slept with the woman, they need to deal with their decision!" Of course, this completely ignores the other side of the equation where women are offered the "out" of their decision.

I agree it would likely not pass and also agree it says a lot about how the public view feminism.

Fact of the matter is, there isn't much left to fight for. Women are able to really do whatever they want to do and good for them! feminists are trying to stay relevant and in doing so, they are making up nonsense that the vast majority of the public disagrees with.

They will soon render themselves obsolete, if it hasn't happened already.

 

Your bolded statement is a big part of the problem. Feminists ( as opposed to most women ) want to have it both ways. They want equality but demand that men carry the burden. Which of course is not equality, They complain endlessly about the glass ceiling but never mention the glass cellar.

Feminists want more female CEO's and tech experts and senators but not more female sewer cleaners or garbage collectors or window washers.

I also agree that yes they are making themselves obsolete but somehow they haven't figured it out yet. They still scream about a pay gap which has been absolutely proven to be a fictional myth. At this point they are not beating a dead horse they are flogging the zombified skeleton of a dead horse yet they still flail away at it.

This thread is about feminists in Sweden which I find interesting. Sweden is considered by some to be more egalitarian than the US. What is interesting is that in the most egalitarian nations such as Sweden and other Scandinavian countries the differences between men and women grow larger rather than equaling out. This is because when left to their own devices men and women choose different things and the result is INEQUALITY of outcome.

This is what feminists hate and what they are fighting against. In many ways they are the worst misogynists. They hate married women who choose to be housewives and moms. They hate women who choose to become strippers or porn stars. They hate women who openly reject feminism most of all.

Just look up who Cassie Jaye is and the repugnant reaction feminists had to her public statement that she will not call her self a feminist. If they could have legally burned her at the stake they would have.

Or this recent article from the Huff post about evil women. Notice they specifically mean wives and moms who are evil.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/opinion-lenz-evil-women_us_5b2a7597e4b0f0b9e9a7b6d8

 

I'm just talking about income. Men have their own problems. Women aren't drafted into the military, are they?

Geez, stifle the Dworkin rant. Save it for someone who supports that stuff.

Women are to some extent a product of their socialization. As well, society is structured around rules and standards that favor men. That's changing, however. One area where change is taking place--teaching. We're increasingly seeing male teachers getting into trouble for behavior typically associated with how men deal with social interactions.

Would women go after some work if the associated jobs were structured differently? I think so.

I've seen studies with pay gap adjustments, but they can't and don't adjust for a number of factors I mentioned.

Who said anything about a legislative remedy? I do think many women are faced with men who leave them with the task of looking after the kids.

You appear to have convinced yourself of a rather self-serving conclusion.

I can't defend activist women pushing positions I don't support.

You've made up a number of straw men positions for me and noe you have the gall to sweep away tour straw men and label me as anti-male.

No, I'm going to tell you to get a clue. All I'm talking about is the pay gap between the sexes.

What does this have to do with me? Answer: nothing. In fact, I created the work experience program for my school district in the 1990s to help motivate young men to continue their educations.

Of course not. There's good evidence the rates are near equal.

It tends to depress their incomes.

A generalization, but one with some truth to it.

I taught high school students and adults for decades, plenty of both genders younger and older than you. The idea that guys turned into wusses is wrong.

The belief in equality is not losing steam, far from it. Some of the ideology of activist women is, however. This is a pattern typical of social movements to right historical wrongs. I remember years ago a woman's network went on tv and started with a bunch of leftwing preaching. The ratings were terrible and the network almost folded until it started showing reruns of Mary Tyler Moore. As you might expect, some of the activist women almost had apoplexy.

My mother was mayor of a small city, my wife always worked, and my daughter is a commercial banker. They didn't rely on feminist activists for emotional support.

 

You made up all sorts of positions for me I don't hold.

 

I'm making fun of people who think that arab immigration is automatically going to lead to womens' rights suffering by ironically stating it in the most flatly absurd terms possible.

 

They've sure as hell have tried and are still trying.

No, it isn't.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_mutilation​

 

Some even suggest such a law be extended to marriage. Why should a husband be forced to be a father against his wishes? It would be a reason to dissolve thr marriage.

I think it's an idea whose time is coming.

 

Apparently, you're unfamiliar with what some women who identify as feminists are saying.

I don't see men or women fighting for farm labor opportunities. (I wonder if you get the point.)

Not the radical feminists you're railing against who often support women as "sex trade workers."

You just can't resist latching on to the popular media stirring up sh*t to make your points.

 

It most certainly is.

They are BOTH genital mutilation and both are uncalled for.