Why Tax Return saga is incredibly stupid even by our standards.

"To find out if Mitt Romney/Donald Trump is hiding something, let's look into documents where they actually have to document their financial goods and anything that's missing will sooner be flagged by the IRS before the DNC gets to it"-Democrats, 2019.

Seriously, no one is going to defraud the IRS via filing a fraudulent report. More often, when the IRS does cite a fraudulent report, it'll often be a case of what's NOT on it, rather than what's on it. Because even the dumbest criminals aren't going to file their misgotten income on a income report.

You don't even have to take my word for it, ask Paul Manafort whose tax fraud case was largely of that nature. So the IRS was/is already aware of what was on Romney's taxes, and is aware of what's on Trump's taxes. If they found something afoot in either, they would've long filed a criminal referral to the DOJ and off we go.

If they found something in the course of the Mueller Probe, the same would've happened. So, what's really behind Tax Return saga? Back in 2012 and today?

The DNC and its politicians think you're IDIOTS. The same people that told us to "Trust Mueller", apparently can't trust the IRS to accurately operate successfully and to report criminal fraud in tax payments when that's the main purpose of that organization.

If so, they should be shouting to the rooftops about the IRS but we don't hear that, do we?
In part, they don't want to undercut their argument that Trump supporters are "undermining the institutions" by criticizing them, if they were to so criticize the IRS.

But also mostly in part, they know their own criticism is mute. It's noise, generating noise. Based off a "custom" that serves to provide security, assurance, etc to people than anything. Would it be great if he released his returns? It sure would be. But would hell freeze over if he didn't? Not really. We're not entitled to his personal financial information, and no him being President doesn't make it okay. People did it voluntarily, and it should remain voluntary. If a bill of such nature goes to the POTUS's desk, he's obligated to veto it. Not merely for himself, but for all candidates and persons in the US. Our personal financial info is our personal financial info.

Trump's personal financial info is his personal financial info. No matter how many people scream to want to see it.

 

"Rich man release your taxes!" Is just a populist talking point. It isn't all that useful because it was never meant to be useful, just a rallying call to the base of jealous peasants and dole bludgers who might consider voting Democrat.

A bit like the right pushing a ban on the burqa. Sure, it doesn't really solve anything, but is a useful populist line to feed to the hungry masses.

Aaaaaannnddd... thats politics. Get used to it.

 

I mean, I was drawn to the politics of Plato/Socrates. Increasingly, politics is now a game for children who got exposed via the mass media influence. Before the social media impact, elections were barely getting 60% participation rates, at best.

 

All the various excuses Trump has contrived for hiding the tax returns he made his fake promise to share in line with every other presidential nominee in recent history are bound to fail, no matter how desperate he is to hide them.

Americans, by a vast majority, expect him to keep his word in the matter, adhere to the customary practice of disclosure, and obey the law.

His lawyers may be able to perpetuate his defiance of precedent, popular opinion, and statute until he is evicted from the White House, but what he is in a frenzy to hide will, eventually, be exposed. The truth will out.

In the meantime, constantly reminding him of his promise, of tradition, and of the law is appropriate.

The conservative National Review explicates the case nicely:

 

How many times did he promise to release his tax returns? If its no big deal, why does he lie and lie and lie?

At what point does it sink in even for trumpers that he has lied, and lied, and lied, and it is because he is hiding what he really is?

 

Oh yes, I keep forgetting, trumpers don't care who or what he is. As long as they get what they want, damn the consequences and to hell with American values.

 

The Dems apparently have no faith in the civil servants that serve the IRS. If the president didn’t file taxes or did some illegally they would have brought charges. They haven’t for decades, essentially the leadership on the House Ways and Means Committee is spiting in those hard working men and women’s face

 

We know for a FACT that BetoO'Rourke had a $4,000 mistake in his 2013-14 tax return which was discovered ONLY WHEN HE RELEASED HIS TEN YEARS OF TAXES FOR HIS PRESIDENTIAL BID!!!The IRS DID NOT CATCH IT!!!!

 

Meh - I stopped expecting politicians to keep their campaign promises, sometime in my mid/late 20's. Here I am, thirty years later, and what my gut told me then is still true today.

Pro tip for the future. If it comes out of a politician's mouth during a campaign, there's a very high chance (somewhere in the high 90% range,) it's a lie.

A campaign promise does not resemble an actual promise, in any way, shape or form. They are two completely different things.

 

No one cares about tax errors. It is the flow of his money that we want to know about.

And this notion that someone running for president has a right to hide their life, is total nonsense. And States are now stepping up to require tax returns, in order to be put on the ballot in that State.

 

But what they lie about makes a HUGE difference. Everyone makes promises that they later find are impossible to keep.

Trump is lying to hide his past.

 

A lie is a lie is a lie is a lie is a lie is a lie is a lie is a lie is a lie is a lie .

Was it truthful? Not a lie.
Was it not truthful? Lie.

Every. Politician. Lies. Every. Single. One.

It's their default response. Trump made a promise about the future. "I WILL release...." That's a campaign promise about something he WILL do; not something he DID do.

 

Running for President doesn't give him a right to hide his life. The Federal Code says tax returns are private. A 1040 does not show the "flow of his money" - it shows money earned, deductions, and what is paid. I'm not sure where you think a 1040 does that?

 

Actually, presidential candidates coming clean with their tax returns for the American electorate is an otherwise unbroken tradition of over three decades, one that has been conscientiously honored - which is why candidate Trump promised to do so, despite having no intention of keeping his word but, rather, indulging in his lie in which he feels a desperate need to persist.

Trump is the only major party presidential nominee not to release any tax returns, dating back to 1976, when Ford released a summary of his tax returns, rather than the complete returns. Every major party nominee since then has released complete tax returns.

Trump: “... while I’m under audit, I won’t do it. If I’m not under audit, I would do it. I had no problem with it. But while I’m under audit, I would not give my taxes."

The IRS has said nothing precludes a president from releasing tax returns while under audit (Nixon did).​

IRS Code section 6103(f):

“Upon written request from the chairman of the Committee on Ways and Means of the House of Representatives, the chairman of the Committee on Finance of the Senate, or the chairman of the Joint Committee on Taxation, the Secretary shall furnish such committee with any return or return information specified in such request, except that any return or return information which can be associated with, or otherwise identify, directly or indirectly, a particular taxpayer shall be furnished to such committee only when sitting in closed executive session unless such taxpayer otherwise consents in writing to such disclosure.”
​

The law, the promise, the tradition, and the expectation of most Americans vs Trump's desperate need to hide.

There is no reason not to keep reminding him and everyone of the stark disparity.

​

 

It is what he does. He lies, then lies to cover up his lies. And he isn't even good at it.

The real issue is why does he need to provide this information? You can't just say "he's hiding something" especially after the Mueller report.

If the dems want his financial records, they need a legitimate reason. "Trump is lying to hide his past" isn't a reason.

 

Irrelevant.

In America we don't need a reason for our right to privacy. It doesn't work that way.

 

I have full confidence that Obama has gone over trumps tax returns with a fine tooth comb between election night and Inauguration Day.

 

I don't subscribe to conspiracy theories, but I bet you are correct on that one.

 

Presidential candidates have not come clean with their tax returns for the past 30 years because the IRS might have missed an inadmissible deduction that the public will catch.

The returns, such as Trump repeatedly promised to release, are revelatory of financial interests far beyond that, matters that are not especially relevant to the IRS, but can have significant implications, nonetheless.

Trump bum kissers seem hellbent on abetting his desperation to hide them. but the truth will out.

 

If Trump feels he needs to lie and defy the tradition and expectations of Americans, he can try, of course.

The law that requires the IRS to provide them to Congress is a different matter.

In the meantime, there is no reason not to continually remind him of his broken promise so that he can honor it.

 

In America we don't need a reason for our right to privacy. It doesn't work that way.

And I'll add this. The government does need a reason to invade said privacy.

These rights are for liars as well.

 

I don't care if he releases them or not, nothing comes from a tax return other then then percentage paid. Ever since Reid lied openly about Romey's....I'm in full support of people not showing them

 

It's not a very old tradition. I, personally, do not see what value it adds to the conversation. Why do people need that, anyway?

It's nothing but curiosity from a voyeuristic population that loves lifting people up so they can celebrate when they fall. Many people would like to see a whole lot of tax returns; their boss, their friends, their co-workers, etc. What people want is not related to what they need.

Why does it matter to you, anyway? What big truth will be revealed in seeing someone's tax returns? How does it help you make a voting decision by knowing the exact dollars a presidential candidate paid in taxes? Is there any chance at all you would have voted for Trump, based on what his tax return showed? I suspect the chance was 0%, making the paperwork completely irrelevant to your decision making process.

 

I think all the dems are trying to do, is create a toxic environment around Trump. They want Trump's financial records so they go go after anyone who dares associate with Trump, destroy their lives and finances.

They want to make it virtually impossible for Trump to find anyone who will associate with him, or anyone willing to volunteer to work on his presidential campaign, or to do business with him, and risk the dems tearing their lives apart, destroying them financially, while the dem's media allies savaging them 24/7/365.

 

"Privacy", like any other right, is circumscribed. E.g., an American cannot conceal his earnings from the IRS.

Again, If Trump feels he needs to persist in lying about complying with the customary practice of nominees' releasing their tax returns, defying public opinion, and resisting the law that requires the IRS to provide them to Congress when requested, that is what he will do.

There is no reason not to persist in relentlessly calling upon him to honor his word to the American people.