Why the First Amebdnent even applies to NFL players

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Balto, Sep 25, 2017.

  1. Balto

    Balto Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2013
    Messages:
    10,094
    Likes Received:
    2,252
    Trophy Points:
    113
    To the constitutionalist put there, here's a question. You practice your first amendment right s everyday. Why should Colin Kaspernick be stripped of his, just for his position in the NFL? You want to defend Trumps obscene tweets on Twitter, yet say Kaspernick shouldn't have the right to peacefully protest odyrjng a two-minute tune. You see large protests like the 8,009 plus protest in LA following Election Day. Unlike the unchained lunatics in Berkeley, protests can be done peacefully and in large numbers.

    You really cannot have it both ways. These people who become part of the NFL have begin kicking pigskin since they were three. Body language is part of texpressing speech. So here's a proposition;

    If you're going to tell MFL players to stay still during the Natoonsl Anthem, then you will be fine allowing Trumos tweets to be moderated.

    Leftists are supposed to be considered enemies of the Cinstitution. In this case, conservatives are the enemy. You can't have it both wAys.
     
  2. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Messages:
    25,273
    Likes Received:
    1,633
    Trophy Points:
    113
    the privileged beat their chests as pro or anti american while the american ponders freedom.
     
  3. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Messages:
    16,380
    Likes Received:
    7,057
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The first amendment does not seek to control or contain the behavior of the management of sports teams. We do not have a right to be free of consequences from our employers policy decisions to our speech, when we are doing the speaking on their dime and time. These players should not be jailed or fined by any government authority because such behavior by the city, the state, the county or the feds would breach the boundaries of the constitution their employers can fine, suspend or fire as they please, consistent with the union contract.

    Trumps tweets can be moderated by the owners of the site he is posting them on. They make the rules because they own the site. That also does not run afoul of the first amendment
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2017
  4. Antiduopolist

    Antiduopolist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2016
    Messages:
    24,354
    Likes Received:
    10,858
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Bottom line: Trump was right, the NFL is done.
     
  5. thinkitout

    thinkitout Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2014
    Messages:
    4,897
    Likes Received:
    1,273
    Trophy Points:
    113
    He fired the NFL???
     
  6. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    28,370
    Likes Received:
    9,297
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    If as you say Trump was right.....then freedom of expression is done.
     
  7. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2008
    Messages:
    11,481
    Likes Received:
    915
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Constitution isn't really relevant I think. I'd be surprised, thought, if any owner sacked - oops, wrong word in this context - fired - a player for an expression of opinion. I think they could legally do so, I just don't think they'd do it.
     
    Antiduopolist likes this.
  8. webrockk

    webrockk Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2010
    Messages:
    25,361
    Likes Received:
    9,081
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It would appear the leftist union administered indoctrination mills have completely purged the US Constitution from the curriculum. In other words, <Mod Edit- Rule 2>, this is not a 1st Amendment issue. not even remotely.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2017
    Antiduopolist and Tim15856 like this.
  9. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2016
    Messages:
    7,792
    Likes Received:
    4,229
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    First off, try using spell check.

    I'm sure you're just being disingenuous. You know exactly what the difference is and it has nothing to do with free speech. Unlike the antifa among you who use violence to prevent speech that they don't like, no one is saying these players must be physically forced to not kneel. They want to make a political statement fine, then the fans can make their political statement too. Unlike the left though who prefer to use the courts or the government to force others to their will, conservatives simply boycott actions they consider as disrespect. They are too busy earning a living to take to the streets to protest, so withdrawing monetary support is where they act. When on the clock, employees are expected not to take actions that get their employers customers upset. When an employee pisses off the customers, they are usually fired. In this case the only reason they aren't fired is because of the big bucks invested in them.
     
  10. Antiduopolist

    Antiduopolist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2016
    Messages:
    24,354
    Likes Received:
    10,858
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It was yuuuuuuge.

    He called Tom Brady (& his over-inflated balls) into his Oval Office and spoke the immortal words:

    "Between Concussiongate and Kneelgate, the NFL has shot itself not merely in the foot, but in America's heartland."

    Or words to that effect.

    RIP NFL.
     
  11. Antiduopolist

    Antiduopolist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2016
    Messages:
    24,354
    Likes Received:
    10,858
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Correct.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2017
  12. Antiduopolist

    Antiduopolist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2016
    Messages:
    24,354
    Likes Received:
    10,858
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Huh?

    When you're on your employer's dime, you do as you're asked to do, refraining from objectionable conduct if asked to do so.

    Don't like it?

    As Trump would say, you're fired.

    Or not, but up to the NFL.

    Dead League Walking...
     
    Seth Bullock likes this.
  13. Hotdogr

    Hotdogr Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2013
    Messages:
    11,021
    Likes Received:
    5,250
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This is not a first amendment issue. This is purely an issue between players and management.

    The management could tell the players to drop trow and pinch off a Cleveland steamer on the flag during the anthem, if they thought it would be good for their business.

    And, judging by the current state of the left w/r to patriotism, perhaps it might be.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2017
    SillyAmerican and Antiduopolist like this.
  14. SillyAmerican

    SillyAmerican Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2016
    Messages:
    3,678
    Likes Received:
    1,285
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Exactly right. Citizens have a right to express themselves as they see fit. Employers have a right to disallow activities/expressions which they feel reflect badly on them. Consumers have a right to choose not to patronize companies whose policies they disagree with. Each of these rights is important, and the exercising of one right does not preclude the others from coming into play.

    And as you say, the owners of a social website also have the right to control the use of their tools. A person's first amendment rights don't nullify these other rights...
     
  15. Stevew

    Stevew Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2015
    Messages:
    6,501
    Likes Received:
    2,613
    Trophy Points:
    113
    "Stripping" someone's rights is taking them away. No one has had their rights stripped except Trump during the primaries when Chicago thugs kept him from his freedom of assembly and free speech rights. That's why I became a Trump supporter.

    It is appropriate to argue that political speech doesn't belong with entertainment AND we all have the right to turn the channel. ESPN and others are suffering because of inappropriate mixing of politics and entertainment.

    Steve
     
  16. GoogleMurrayBookchin

    GoogleMurrayBookchin Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2017
    Messages:
    6,654
    Likes Received:
    2,239
    Trophy Points:
    113
    all politics is spectacle now. it comes down to getting people Extremely Mad Online while the gov continues to bomb hospitals and nobody really cares because they never did in the first place.

    basically, i hate every single person responsible for making this into a story. the worst thing about 2017 has been having to endure the broken spasms of trump's rotting brain constantly being turned into a national deal
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2017
    rcfoolinca288 likes this.
  17. Bow To The Robots

    Bow To The Robots Banned at Members Request

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2009
    Messages:
    25,855
    Likes Received:
    5,926
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Not a First Amendment issue.
     
    ButterBalls and Antiduopolist like this.
  18. Crownline

    Crownline Banned at Members Request

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2016
    Messages:
    6,472
    Likes Received:
    6,537
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    Here is our first amendment.
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
     
    Antiduopolist likes this.
  19. Cigar

    Cigar Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2011
    Messages:
    11,478
    Likes Received:
    2,646
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    But why doesn't Buy American First apply to Donald J Trump's Businesses?
     
    rcfoolinca288 likes this.
  20. Fred68

    Fred68 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2015
    Messages:
    493
    Likes Received:
    344
    Trophy Points:
    63
    It may be a First Amendment right, but the venue is just wrong. I feel that propagating, on a world stage, the false narrative that, in the US, black people are just killed without just cause is wrong.
     
  21. Cigar

    Cigar Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2011
    Messages:
    11,478
    Likes Received:
    2,646
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    What kind of cognitive dissonance exists when a draft dodging ******* like Trump tries to lecture the nation on respect for the Flag?
     
    rcfoolinca288 likes this.
  22. Pred

    Pred Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2011
    Messages:
    24,355
    Likes Received:
    17,350
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The players can do as they wish. If they feel strongly enough, kneel. Go ahead. Trump should not say another word about it, not that he should have said anything to begin with...besides "I don't agree with them", IF ANYONE asked him. The SOB comment was just too damn far. Stupid as usual. But Trump is Trump. However, those claiming they're kneeling to protest Trump are idiots. It has NOTHING to do with Trump. Its the nation and our troops you're sort of stepping on. And if you're kneeling due to the same reason BLM was started, which was the whole point from the get go, you're still a clueless idiot who doesn't grasp statistics.
     
  23. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    107,541
    Likes Received:
    34,488
    Trophy Points:
    113
    LOL, Trump hate triggered the current TDS and all the redecorating, kneeling, and left wing violence.

    The poor little African Americans kneeling that are free because of our country and making millions and their enablers do not deserve any respect by anyone.
     
    ButterBalls likes this.
  24. FAW

    FAW Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2008
    Messages:
    13,003
    Likes Received:
    3,849
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The right to free speech means that you cannot be imprisoned for speaking your mind. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with rules from any particular employer. A waitress in a restaurant also has a right to free speech, but if she decides to exercise that right and calls all of her customers fat pigs, her employer is well within their rights to fire her for insulting their customers. Being fired for insulting customers is not an abridgment to her constitutional free speech in any manner, shape, or form.

    The NFL regulates the free expression of its players in countless ways both on and off the field, and that regulation is not an abridgement of free speech even remotely. They levy large fines for wearing their socks wrong, speaking badly about officials, and celebration dances that the league deems inappropriate just to name a few. They have subjective morals clauses in their contracts that allow the league to subjectively come in after the fact and declare any particular action as being in violation of that morals clause. If the league doesn't want its players behaving in a certain way, they have a long history of swiftly meting out punishment for actions that were not previously specifically forbidden. It wasn't written into the rule book that a player cannot wear a headband with the commissioners name written on it, but when Vince McMahon wrote Rozelle on his headband, he was immediately given a huge fine. Of course writing something on a headband is constitutionally protected speech, but constitutionally protected speech has NOTHING to do with the rules that any particular employer decides to set for its employees.

    To hide behind the curtain of free speech and pretending as if the NFL constitutionally doesn't have the ability to regulate the behavior of its players because of free speech is about as disingenuous and intellectually dishonest as it gets.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2017
  25. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 5, 2015
    Messages:
    27,360
    Likes Received:
    8,062
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Black NFL players protesting that their teams are not 100% black is pathetic and a study in true racism.
     
    ButterBalls likes this.

Share This Page