Why the world should adopt a basic income

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by LafayetteBis, Jul 10, 2018.

  1. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Given you can't do comment, have a jolly!
     
  2. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2016
    Messages:
    9,744
    Likes Received:
    2,086
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    And just in case:
    Liberal: willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas.
    Democratic: No not the Democrat Party, but relating to or supporting democracy or its principles.
    Polity: a form or process of civil government or constitution.

    Social Justice: justice/fairness in terms of the distribution of wealth, opportunities, and privileges within a society.
     
  3. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    18,068
    Likes Received:
    2,644
    Trophy Points:
    113
    With regards to wealth distribution, social justice requires the violation of property rights, and is therefore unjust.
     
  4. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Idiotic circular reasoning there! Interestingly, modern property rights analysis (and I mean the stuff that builds from transaction costs, rather than the "let's be more selfish" American fake libertarianism) builds on analysis from Marx.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
  5. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    18,068
    Likes Received:
    2,644
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Circular? How so?
    Yawn.
     
  6. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So you're not actually interested in the economics of property rights?
     
  7. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    18,068
    Likes Received:
    2,644
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Sure. What would you like to tell me about the economics of property rights?
     
  8. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    18,068
    Likes Received:
    2,644
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Circular? How so?
     
  9. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I've already given you a snippet. The new institutionalist analysis, which has dominated property rights analysis, builds on Marx (though they're often unaware of it).

    A couple of examples of Marx's importance: "Marx was the first social scientist to have a theory of property rights" Pejovich (1982); "Capital by Marx is a scientific magnum opus that provides detailed analyses of the capitalist mode of production and the corresponding relations of production and also analyzes capitalist property relations in an all-round way as a legal expression of the capitalist relations of production. As a matter of fact, Marx’s volumes of expositions on property relations and property rights constructed the main body of the theoretical edifice of property rights" Wu (2008 )

    The difference with the institutionalists effectively reflects their lack of understanding of the importance of the stage in economic development
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
  10. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    18,068
    Likes Received:
    2,644
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Okay, now are you going to tell me about the economics of property rights?
     
    crank likes this.
  11. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Are you serious? That's a book or two. Given your naivety, probably best to start with Coase. He writes well, such that even ideologues free from economics can understand.

    It did amuse me that you'd refer to property rights without actually knowing any of the economics. The link to Marx was an additional bonus!
     
  12. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    18,068
    Likes Received:
    2,644
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes, you mentioned some books, per usual.

    So you have nothing to say yourself? This is a debate board, if I remember right, not a book recommendation board.
     
  13. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Neither came from books. But hey, great to be consistently wrong!

    I referred to the economic research into property rights. I demonstrated that Marx started it all. I also referred to the limitations of the orthodox viewpoint, which strips away the importance of the stage of economic development.

    And you? You merely told me that you don't know any of the economics of property rights literature. That's a tad pathetic!
     
  14. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    18,068
    Likes Received:
    2,644
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I see that you're very learned in the economics of property rights. Yet you haven't conveyed a single bit of information about them. You've not made a single argument.

    Let me know when you wish to start.
     
  15. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Let's start with the obvious: why don't you know any economics of property rights, despite making a big deal about it?
     
  16. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    18,068
    Likes Received:
    2,644
    Trophy Points:
    113
    LOL. I never said anything about the economics of property rights. Never made a big deal about them. You’re the one who brought up the phrase.

    If you ever feel like talking about these economic property rights of yours, just let me know. I'm all ears.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
  17. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So, let's get this straight, you cheered property rights on an economics forum without knowing any of the economics?
     
  18. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    18,068
    Likes Received:
    2,644
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yep: "With regards to wealth distribution, social justice requires the violation of property rights, and is therefore unjust."

    So you're referring to what economics of property rights exactly?
     
  19. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You're on an economics forum, you need to have an understanding of what property rights means. Bit feckin obvious really.
     
  20. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    54,812
    Likes Received:
    18,482
    Trophy Points:
    113
    As long as those violated can violate right back, it's at least equitable. Can I, whose property is confiscated for the purposes of gifting to persons not prepared to do the hard yards required of property ownership in the absence of inherited wealth, then immediately confiscate that same property? I mean, I won't be 'rich' anymore ... so I'll need it. Is this how it would work, in an 'equitable' society?
     
  21. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You're a great advert for zero economic comment. Do you disagree?
     
  22. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    54,812
    Likes Received:
    18,482
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What answer will make you go away?
     
  23. james M

    james M Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2014
    Messages:
    12,916
    Likes Received:
    858
    Trophy Points:
    113
    yes that's exactly how it would work because the next politician would have to promise away even more of your property until you were broke. Liberalism is like a cancer, it only grows and grows until everyone is dying in poverty with still no incentive to work
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
  24. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    An answer with content. Good luck!
     
  25. james M

    james M Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2014
    Messages:
    12,916
    Likes Received:
    858
    Trophy Points:
    113
    why waste your time so pathetically? If you know anything about property rights tell us exactly what it is. Merely making allusions to what you know or pretending to know things is an utter waste of time and stupid beyond words yet that is your whole act. Do you figure you are somehow scoring points by being annoying or wasting our time?
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
    Longshot likes this.

Share This Page