Why Trump was Never the Legitimate President

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Modus Ponens, Nov 21, 2020.

  1. Modus Ponens

    Modus Ponens Well-Known Member

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    It was Obama's appointment to make (technically, it was the Obama electorate's appointment, delegated to Obama (for his entire term) by an election - y'know, the type that have consequences), and it was stolen. McConnell only has veto-power over particular nominees. But McConnell instead effectively asserted the power to nullify Obama's appointment power. It was Unconstitutional.


    McConnell was violating the Constitution, by refusing to act on Obama's lower-court appointees. He could have voted them down, that would have been legitimate - but instead he refused to act (same as in the case with Garland), refused to do his job, that is - and that was Unconstitutional.


    More lies about "crimes." When you Lie, why should anything else you say have any credibility?

    Here's the truth: the Constitution doesn't require McConnell to accept any of Obama's nominees. But for the President's power of appointment to be kept intact, the Senate has to affirmatively reject candidates they don't want. If that happens, then the process starts over and the President nominates someone else. But by refusing to act, McConnell short-circuited the whole process outlined in Article II Sec. 2; which was tantamount to denying the President's Article II powers and responsibilities. What part of "Unconstitutional," do you not understand?

    So - why did McConnell refuse to act? Why didn't he simply strike down as many nominees as Obama put up? That would have been Constitutional. But he didn't. He can't say that it was up to the American people to decide in the elections, since the American people already decided in 2016, when they gave Obama the appointment-power for four years. And in fact McConnell's lies here were only underscored by his jamming through Coney Barretts' nomination with less than two months left (Obama had more than eight months left, at the time of the Scalia vacancy)!

    Of course, it's as pointless to ask a Con why they are being hypocrites, as it is to ask a skunk why it stinks. It's just what you do.


    Lies, lies, lies. It's just what you do. Just look at your cult-leader.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020
  2. mitchscove

    mitchscove Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How did Nixon's name end up in this conversation. Don't remember discussing the EPA, Clean Air Act, Clean Water Act or any of that Liberal crap Nixon started. If I didn't know the racist Woodrow Wilson was the patron saint of progressivism, I would have pinned that label on Dickie.
     
  3. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

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    Wrong. They wrote no carve out

    You are making a baseless assumption

    They wrote the constitution the way they did because they meant it the way they did and natural born means strictly born here not some other obscure idea.
     
  4. Daggdag

    Daggdag Well-Known Member

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    Natural born citizens are also anyone born outside of the United States whose parents were citizens. There used to be a requirement that a parent had lived in the United States for a certain period of time before their birth but that was lifted a while back.
     
  5. Daggdag

    Daggdag Well-Known Member

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    The Constitution has no definition for natural. And the supreme Court holds that anyone born in the United States is automatically, and that anyone born outside the United States who has a citizen for a parent is a natural born citizen.

    this is how people like John McCain and Ted Cruz are allowed to run for president despite not being born within the United States.

    also anyone born in Guam American Samoa or Puerto Rico or Washington DC or any other Federal territory are also natural born citizens.
     
  6. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    No matter what else you stated...what you said here proves your entire premise wrong. If Trump holds his office legally and can legally exercise the powers of that office...then he IS the legitimate President. No matter what else you say, no matter what spin you try and use, Trump IS and always will have been a legitimate President.
     
  7. Modus Ponens

    Modus Ponens Well-Known Member

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    You're simply choosing to ignore the distinction I made between the legal and the legitimate, here. Unless you address that distinction as I made it, your objections are bootless.
     
  8. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

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    your distinction is subjective and partisan.

    which means worthless
     
  9. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    No, your "distinction" is what's bootless. All that you're doing is using sophistry to excuse your call to call him illegitimate. But facts are facts, and Trump IS your legitimate President. And he will be written as such in the history books. Whether you like it or not.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2020
  10. mitchscove

    mitchscove Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Reid Controlled the Senate, Obama was President. Perhaps you should consult Biden's Alzheimer's doctor.
    Before Reid and Obama destroyed bipartisanship in Washington near the end of 2013, following up on what Obama told Medvedev before the 2012 election that he wouldn't have to serve the interests of the US any longer, the Senate confirmed over 200 judges, including a justice who had never seen the inside of a courtroom from the bench. Lies, lies, lies ,,, from your cult to our eyes:

    Debra M. Brown (Mississippi) Northern District of Mississippi
    J. Paul Oetken Southern District of New York
    Albert G. Lauber
    Gregory Howard Woods Southern District of New York
    Kevin A. Ohlson United States Court of Appeals for the Armed Forces
    Andrea R. Wood Northern District of Illinois
    Madeline Haikala United States District Court for the Northern District of Alabama
    Sara Lee Ellis Northern District of Illinois
    Colin Stirling Bruce Central District of Illinois
    Todd Hughes Federal Circuit
    Elaine Kaplan Federal Claims
    Patricia Campbell-Smith United States Court of Federal Claims
    Vernon Broderick Southern District of New York
    Valerie Caproni Southern District of New York
    Raymond Chen Federal Circuit
    Jennifer Dorsey District of Nevada
    Gregory Alan Phillips United States Court of Appeals for the 10th Circuit
    Kenneth John Gonzales District of New Mexico
    Nitza I. Quinones Alejandro Eastern District of Pennsylvania
    Jeffrey L. Schmehl Eastern District of Pennsylvania
    Claire R. Kelly International Trade
    Mark A. Barnett Court of International Trade
    Srikanth Srinivasan United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit
    Robert Okun Superior Court of the District of Columbia
    Michael Kenny O'Keefe Superior Court of the District of Columbia
    Michael McShane United States District Court for the District of Oregon
    Sheri Chappell Middle District of Florida
    William Orrick III Northern District of California
    Nelson S. Roman Southern District of New York
    Jane Kelly United States Court of Appeals for the 8th Circuit
    Patty Shwartz United States Court of Appeals for the 3rd Circuit
    Derrick Kahala Watson District of Hawaii
    Analisa Torres Southern District of New York
    Beverly Reid O'Connell United States District Court for the Central District of California
    Raymond P. Moore District of Colorado
     
  11. mitchscove

    mitchscove Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And more Obama appointments ,,,,
    Ketanji Brown Jackson United States District Court for the District of Columbia
    Troy L. Nunley Eastern District of California
    Andrew Gordon District of Nevada
    Richard Gary Taranto United States Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit
    Pamela Ki Mai Chen Eastern District of New York
    Katherine Failla Southern District of New York
    Robert Bacharach United States Court of Appeals for the 10th Circuit
    William Kayatta United States Court of Appeals for the 1st Circuit
    William Greenberg United States Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims
    Matthew Brann United States District Court for the Middle District of Pennsylvania
    Jon S. Tigar Northern District of California
    Malachy Mannion United States District Court for the Middle District of Pennsylvania
    Thomas M. Durkin Northern District of Illinois
    Fernando Olguin Central District of California
    Lorna Schofield Southern District of New York
    Frank P. Geraci, Jr. United States District Court for the Western District of New York
    Jesus Bernal Central District of California
    John Dowdell Northern District of Oklahoma
    Terrence Berg Eastern District of Michigan
    Mark E. Walker United States District Court for the Northern District of Florida
    Michael Shea United States District Court for the District of Connecticut
    Paul Grimm District of Maryland
    Kimberley S. Knowles Superior Court of the District of Columbia
    Robert Shelby District of Utah
    Gonzalo Curiel Southern District of California
    Stephanie Rose Southern District of Iowa
    Gershwin Drain Eastern District of Michigan
    Michael Shipp District of New Jersey
    Kevin McNulty District of New Jersey
    John T. Fowlkes United States District Court for the Western District of Tennessee
    Mary Geiger Lewis United States District Court for the District of South Carolina
    Andrew Hurwitz United States Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit
    Jeffrey J. Helmick Northern District of Ohio
     
  12. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I can't believe you're still salty you lost in 2016. Take the 2020 win and run with it.
     
  13. mitchscove

    mitchscove Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And more Obama appointments
    Margaret Bartley United States Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims
    Coral W. Pietsch United States Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims
    Roy W. McLeese District of Columbia Court of Appeals
    Paul Watford Ninth Circuit
    George L. Russell, III District of Maryland
    John Tharp, Jr. Northern District of Illinois
    John Z. Lee Northern District of Illinois
    Kristine Gerhard Baker Eastern District of Arkansas
    Jacqueline Nguyen United States Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit
    David Guaderrama United States District Court for the Western District of Texas
    Brian C. Wimes United States District Court for the Eastern District of Missouri, Western District of Missouri
    Stephanie Thacker United States Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit
    Miranda Du District of Nevada
    Susie Morgan Eastern District of Louisiana
    Rudolph Contreras United States District Court for the District of Columbia
    Ronnie Abrams Southern District of New York
    David Nuffer District of Utah
    Michael Fitzgerald (California) Central District of California
    Gina Marie Groh Northern District of West Virginia
    Mary Elizabeth Phillips Western District of Missouri
    Margo Brodie Eastern District of New York
    Jesse Furman Southern District of New York
    Adalberto Jordan United States Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit
    Cathy Bencivengo Southern District of California
    John Gerrard District of Nebraska
    Morgan Christen United States Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit
    James Gilstrap United States District Court for the Eastern District of Texas
    Edgardo Ramos Southern District of New York
    Dana Christensen District of Montana
    Andrew L. Carter, Jr. Southern District of New York
    Christopher Droney United States Court of Appeals for the 2nd Circuit
    Danya Ariel Dayson Superior Court of the District of Columbia
    Peter Arno Krauthamer Superior Court of the District of Columbia
    Catharine Easterly District of Columbia Court of Appeals
    Corinne Ann Beckwith District of Columbia Court of Appeals
    John McCabe Superior Court of the District of Columbia
    Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers Northern District of California
    Sharon L. Gleason District of Alaska
    Evan Wallach United States Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit
    Richard G. Andrews (Delaware) District of Delaware
    Scott W. Skavdahl United States District Court for the District of Wyoming
    Stephen Higginson United States Court of Appeals for the 5th Circuit
    Mark Raymond Hornak United States District Court for the Western District of Pennsylvania
    Robert David Mariani United States District Court for the Middle District of Pennsylvania
    Robert N. Scola, Jr. Southern District of Florida
     
  14. mitchscove

    mitchscove Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And hopefully, thses Obama appointments will squeak through:
    Cathy Bissoon United States District Court for the Western District of Pennsylvania
    Katherine Forrest Southern District of New York
    Alison J. Nathan Southern District of New York
    Susan Hickey Western District of Arkansas
    Jane Triche-Milazzo Eastern District of Louisiana
    Jennifer Zipps District of Arizona
    Nannette Jolivette Brown Eastern District of Louisiana
    William Kuntz Eastern District of New York
    Nancy Torresen District of Maine
    Marina Marmolejo Southern District of Texas
    Henry Floyd United States Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit
    John A. Ross Eastern District of Missouri
    Timothy M. Cain United States District Court for the District of South Carolina
    Bernice Donald United States Court of Appeals for the 6th Circuit
    Sara Lynn Darrow Central District of Illinois
    Kathleen M. Williams Southern District of Florida
    R. Brooke Jackson District of Colorado
    Nelva Gonzales Ramos Southern District of Texas
    Paul A. Engelmayer Southern District of New York
    Ramona V. Manglona United States District Court for the Northern Mariana Islands
    Wilma A. Lewis District Court of the Virgin Islands
    Michael H. Simon United States District Court for the District of Oregon
    Esther Salas District of New Jersey
    Claire Cecchi District of New Jersey
    Susan L. Carney (Second Circuit) United States Court of Appeals for the 2nd Circuit
    Michael Urbanski Western District of Virginia
    Arenda L. Wright Allen United States District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia
    Edward Chen Northern District of California
    John J. McConnell, Jr. United States District Court for the District of Rhode Island
    Kevin Hunter Sharp Middle District of Tennessee
    Roy Bale Dalton, Jr. Middle District of Florida
    Vincent L. Briccetti Southern District of New York
    John A. Kronstadt Central District of California
    Jimmie V. Reyna Federal Circuit
    Mae A. D'Agostino Northern District of New York
    Amy B. Jackson United States District Court for the District of Columbia
    James E. Boasberg District of Columbia
    Max O. Cogburn, Jr. Western District of North Carolina
    James E. Shadid Central District of Illinois
    Anthony J. Battaglia Southern District of California
    Sue Myerscough Central District of Illinois
    Amy Totenberg Northern District of Georgia
    Steve C. Jones Northern District of Geogia
    Edward J. Davila Northern District of California
    James Graves United States Court of Appeals for the 5th Circuit
    Diana Saldana Southern District of Texas
    Paul K. Holmes Western District of Arkansas
    Marco A. Hernandez United States District Court for the District of Oregon
    Beryl A. Howell District of Columbia
    Scott Matheson (Utah) United States Court of Appeals for the 10th Circuit
    Mary Murguia United States Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit
    Kathleen M. O'Malley Federal Circuit
    William J. Martinez District of Colorado
    Benita Pearson Northern District of Ohio
    Carlton W. Reeves Southern District of Mississippi
    Raymond Lohier United States Court of Appeals for the 2nd Circuit
    Edmond E. Chang Northern District of Illinois
    Albert Diaz United States Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit
    Leslie Kobayashi District of Hawaii
    Ellen Hollander District of Maryland
    Denise Casper District of Massachusetts
    Susan Richard Nelson District of Minnesota
    John A. Gibney United States District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia
    Catherine Eagles Middle District of North Carolina
    Kimberly Mueller Eastern District of California
    James Bredar District of Maryland
    Jane Stranch United States Court of Appeals for the 6th Circuit
    Richard Mark Gergel United States District Court for the District of South Carolina
    J. Michelle Childs United States District Court for the District of South Carolina
    James Wynn United States Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit
    Leonard Stark District of Delaware
    Elena Kagan Supreme Court of the United States
    Sharon Coleman Northern District of Illinois
    Gary Feinerman Northern District of Illinois
    Marc Thomas Treadwell Middle District of Georgia
    Josephine Staton Central District of California
    Mark Goldsmith Eastern District of Michigan
    Elizabeth Erny Foote Western District of Louisiana
    Tanya Walton Pratt Southern District of Indiana
    Brian Jackson (Louisiana) Brian Jackson
    Audrey Fleissig Eastern District of Missouri
    Jane Magnus-Stinson Southern District of Indiana
    Jon E. DeGuilio Northern District of Indiana
    Timothy S. Black United States District Court for the Southern District of Ohio
    Nancy D. Freudenthal District of Wyoming
    Denny Chin United States Court of Appeals for the 2nd Circuit
    Thomas Vanaskie United States Court of Appeals for the 3rd Circuit
    O. Rogeriee Thompson United States Court of Appeals for the 1st Circuit
    William Conley (Wisconsin) United States District Court for the Western District of Wisconsin
    Barbara Keenan United States Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit
    Joseph Greenaway Third Circuit
    Rosanna Peterson Eastern District of Washington
    Beverly Martin United States Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit
    Dolly Gee Central District of California
    Richard Seeborg Northern District of California
    Jacqueline Nguyen United States District Court for the Central District of California
    Abdul Kallon United States District Court for the Northern District of Alabama
    Christina Reiss United States District Court for the District of Vermont
    David Hamilton (Seventh Circuit) United States Court of Appeals for the 7th Circuit
    Charlene Honeywell Middle District of Florida
    Andre Davis United States Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit
    Irene Berger Southern District of West Virginia
    Roberto Lange United States District Court for the District of South Dakota
    Jeffrey Viken United States District Court for the District of South Dakota
    Gerard Lynch United States Court of Appeals for the 2nd Circuit
    Sonia Sotomayor Supreme Court of the United States
    Robert Chatigny United States District Court for the District of Connecticut
     
  15. Modus Ponens

    Modus Ponens Well-Known Member

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    I'm making an argument, both from history and human psychology, about the very nature of political power, in all times and places. You have no argument, you have only repetitive assertion without anything to back it up. Legitimacy is something that can only be granted (by the governed, and especially by the opposition), not asserted. It is clear that the American people never granted it to Trump, and the prime evidence for that is that Trump himself railed against that fact. Trump by his conduct forfeited legitimacy, just as you are forfeiting the argument by having no response.
     
  16. Modus Ponens

    Modus Ponens Well-Known Member

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    How is it subjective, when I'm referring to a general phenomenon of political psychology, attested to by history? It is partisan, sure, so what - I'm afraid it's the nature of politics that there is disagreement, I know you Cons have a hard time regarding any political opposition as legitimate.
     
  17. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

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    You are not referring to a general phenomenon.

    You are referring to your personal preferred standard.

    I'm not a con
     
  18. Modus Ponens

    Modus Ponens Well-Known Member

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    If anything, McConnell "destroyed bipartisanship" in 2009, when he stated that his prime goal was to make Obama a one-term President.


    More lies.


    Look man, time for you to take that Alzheimer's test yourself. From the moment McConnel got control of the Senate, he put a thorough blockade on confirming judges nominated by Obama. It was Unconstitutional. And don't talk about the experience of judges, when Trump put up some of the most incompetent nominees ever to the judiciary! ACB herself had barely two years of experience on the bench (only for the purpose of grooming her resume for the Court), prior to going to the SC! Just more of the Trump grift. Really, dude - if your defense of Trump is gonna be that weak, it'd be better for you just to not even bother.
     
  19. Modus Ponens

    Modus Ponens Well-Known Member

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    I made a case for my point of view. It happens to be something that I personally believe, sure, but that is secondary. You're the one who has ideas you cannot defend.
     
  20. Modus Ponens

    Modus Ponens Well-Known Member

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    Far as I'm concerned, we didn't lose the office. We only lost the power of the office.
     
  21. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

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    No it is exclusively soomething which you believe.

    My ideas are rooted in law which t4rumps your vague belief
     
  22. Modus Ponens

    Modus Ponens Well-Known Member

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    You obviously seem impressed with your non-point.
     
  23. Modus Ponens

    Modus Ponens Well-Known Member

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    What we have here is a textbook example of failure of the Burden of Rejoinder. To make my argument, I had the Burden of Proof - which means, the burden of stating a thesis and backing it up with evidence, and a warrant from the evidence to the thesis. I've done that, repeatedly. And in response, you are under the burden of addressing my arguments. Instead you only come up with the rhetorical equivalent of "nyah-nyah." Conclusion? You lose.
     
  24. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

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    You bnacked up nothing with evidence.

    Therefore your premise of a failure is false.

    You only stated a feeling or belief you wish to be accepted as accurate when in fact it is just an arbitrary idea used for partisan reasons.

    I have addressed your arguments and proven them false
     
  25. Modus Ponens

    Modus Ponens Well-Known Member

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    More failure.
     

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