Why would I worship and love a "God" who ordered infanticide?

Not according to the Christian founders of Western science.

A better answer than "nothing did it".

What is the scientific explanation for the Big Bang or how the first non-life became life? No guesses, please.

 

And there was a time when there wasn't a single Indian on the continent, so?

I am part Native American myself, and anyone who does the things described in my link (did you read it?) of whatever race are savages. If you want to call the perpetrators of Wounded Knee the same I would agree.

 

My guess is we'll know in about 1000 years, but no, we don't fully understand it right now, I'll admit. As a Modern Secular Humanist I'm not so afraid that I need some magic book to explain stuff we don't fully understand right now. I'm ok with discovering, and not always knowing 100% - until consistent science shows us the way. Comforting fairy tales are not needed, to a Modern Secular Humanist. It's a more confident belief system than religions are.

 

Being honest - we don't 100% know, is the best answer...not "well, the book was been proven wrong by Darwin, but, uh, I'm still going to believe it, because I'm just too darned scared to face the possibility of no after-life, so I gotta believe in Jesus or there's no after-life for me.....". A coward's way out. There's no need to be an intellectual coward.

 

So shouldn't you be open the the God hypothesis, especially with recent evidence for a designer?

As I would say to those who a priori rule out the God hypothesis.

 

The bible provably (I'm being kind here) successfully explains maybe 6000 years of the universe....but science provably shows 12 BILLION years (let's just say 12 billion, out of the 13 billion, to be safe). And 12 billion is TWO MILLION TIMES more than the 6000 years, so science explains the world successfully about TWO MILLION times longer than the bible does.....not looking so good for Jesus, I'm afraid.

Jesus would allegedly KNOW what happened before the Big Bang, but he's not telling us....EDITED TROLLING REMARK.

 

I think Dawkins' God DELUSION is more accurate.
Gosh, I really really wish god was indeed real, because if he cared about us that is, he'd clear all this nasty confusion up for us....instead, because he won't, religion looks pretty stupid, I gotta say. "Our god loves us, but not enough to explain past the 6000 years that he explained to us in the Bible...."

 

The Bible doesn't say how old the earth is.

Why would that be relevant?

 

So you have faith, right?

 

Not really.

"Darwin thought a single cell was just a "homogeneous globule of protoplasm."

DNA shows one cell in the human body contains more information than thirty volumes of the Encyclopedia Britannica.

Biochemist Michael Behe says that modern science has made the Darwinian explanation of the origin of complex life forms much less believable than it was in Darwin's day.

"Evolution is a fairy tale for grown-ups. This theory has helped nothing in the progress of science. It is useless."
Professor Louis Bounoure, Director of Research,
National Center of Scientific Research.

"Scientists who go about teaching that evolution is a fact of life are great con-men, and the story they are telling may be the greatest hoax ever."
Dr. T. N. Tahmisian, Atomic Energy Commission, USA.

"The conclusion of intelligent design flows naturally from the data itself—not from sacred books or sectarian beliefs . . . The reluctance of science to embrace the conclusion of intelligent design . . . has no justifiable foundation . . . . Most people, including many important and well-respected scientists, just don't want there to be anything beyond nature"
Michael Behe, molecular scientist from Lehigh University"

 

Yes I read the whole every race does bad so lets just skip the FACT that for a long time (and to some extent still) Native Americans have had to endure the stigma and systemic cultural abuse of being labelled, not individually or tribe by tribe, but collectively as a degenerate and dangerous people based on pseudo-science, racist theory and willful ignorance. Yes I admit there are some Native Americans who are cruel mother(*)(*)(*)(*)ers as there are in other races, but the difference in this respect refers to the historic and cultural bias that particular indigenous races ie. Native Americans, Maori, Ainu have had to endure because of prevailing imperialist traditions.

And when you say you're part Native American then of course you would most likely agree, unless of course you are part Native American in the same way I'm part German because my great-great-great-great grandpa was one.

 

You are correct that science, as it always does, has IMPROVED on Darwin's original theories. Too bad religion is too scared to improve.

 

Yep, one thing. The whole collection of ancient bull(*)(*)(*)(*) scribed by folks who believed in witches, thought the earth was flat, defecated on the ground and wiped on their hands came from their developing imaginations, and brainwashing of small children has kept the stuff alive too long.

They almost had me...my maternal grandmother started on my little ass over 75 years ago and I lived the pattern till I was over 60. I never had believed it and then, after I retired I leveled with all my family. I decided I would not die a liar!

 

So we ignore what Jesus said (or was quoted saying...let's be accurate)....and simply IMPLY that he meant something else because it fits your bigotry.

Why couldn't I claim that "What Jesus meant by a eunuch....was an elderly man suffering from erectile dysfunction"?

- - - Updated - - -

You notice how quickly the "Bible Believers" have tried to (or accomplished)...

changing the subject?

Because they ran out of material on the subject.

 

Are the ages given in the Old Testament for how long Adam and the rest of the "early patriarchs and prophets of the OT".....accurate?

IOW, did Adam actually live to be 930 years old?

 

Methuselah lived 969 years (Genesis 5:27)

Anybody who believes that (*)(*)(*)(*) needs a thorough head examination.

 

Ah, but see that's the basis for Young Earth Creationism....that the ages given for the "patriarchs" in the Old Testament....was accurate.

Thus back-dating from the formation of Israel to the ages given for guys like Methusaleh to Adam....they got the figure that the Earth was created in 4-5000 BC. Given they could placed the "birth" year of Adam...and that the Earth was created the same week.

 

The Jewish year is 5775.....

 

Oh, it's been disproven because we don't see it today, right?

 

wicked men established slavery in america, they were atheists and pagans also, bet you didnt know that!

 

That works too.....it still gets the YEC crowd a "Week of Creation" figure of about 4000 BCE.

Which is odd....because we can see stars MORE than 6000 lightyears away....and if the stars were created on the Fourth Day (as it says in Genesis)...we should ONLY see stars that are 6000 or less lightyears away...

the light from more distant stars....hasn't had time to reach us.

 

Do you believe the ages given for the "patriarchs" in the Old Testament are accurate and historical?

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, that's the old "If a person, who says they are a Christian, does something evil, they're not 'really' a Christian" Argument.....and it's bulls***.

Slave-owners in America proudly proclaimed themselves to be Christian and even used the Bible to justify slavery....i.e. the "curse of Ham".

 

You are correct about using the curse of Ham.

 

Yes, but I have no opinion on the age of the earth, it isn't exactly an essential of the faith.

Kind of like the 'Stalin wasn't really an atheist' argument, huh?

They forgot the OT and NT bans on slave trading and kidnapping for profit, in fact, in the OT that was punishable by death.

 

I really hate this self-righteous bit of defensive apologia whereby people...who are perfectly happy to blame ALL Muslims for the actions of a few Muslims....

say we are to ignore the actions of numerous Christians who committed an evil....and try to claim "Oh, see...they weren't REAL Christians!" Not they were "bad Christians" or "hypocritical Christians" or "liars who claimed they were Christian as many do"...

no, it's "they weren't Christians at all".

And the reason is obvious....partisanship, same as in politics. Where people claim a miscreant Democrat was "not really a Democrat" or a miscreant Republican was "not really a Republican".....so as to strike a holier-than-thou pose by a member of those parties.