Will near death experience accounts transform psychiatry and psychology?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by DennisTate, Jul 24, 2014.

  1. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  2. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but there is no science there. You do realize that the article is not the Dutch study I assume. Or did you actually read the article?

    You really need to wake up mentally and realize that NDEs are just NDEs and have absolutly nothing to do with the afterlife, or esp or anything other than a close to death experience. There can be a lot of science studying NDEs but trying to extrapolate to the afterlife is just pkain nonsense.

    Should you want to actually engage in a bit of science you can access the real article here:

    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140673601071008/fulltext
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2018
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  3. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    I have read Stevenson's books including the one on birthmarks (they are a hard scientific read) and IMHO they either: 1) provide proof of reincarnation; or 2) Stevenson is a great con man; or 3) extensive exposure to Theosophy in his youth injected a bias into his research.
     
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  4. JET3534

    JET3534 Well-Known Member

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    Hypnotic regression is bunk. http://skepdic.com/pastlife.html
     
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  5. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I actually went to a hypnotherapist .... I think it would have been 1992......
    and when I felt the sense of a feeling of a lack of control begin...... it scared me......
    and so I could not be hypnotized.

    I did feel some sort of power around me......... as she began what she does to put people into a trance....... but I didn't like the feeling myself.

    Ninety percent of people can be hypnotized and get impressions of past lives..... or what they perceive as past lives somehow and the results are surprising.
     
  6. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is a good analysis of what is probably going on........
    Some of my Jehovah's Witness friends from my teenage years would probably tend to think that hypnosis opens up a mind to control by a fallen angel or demon........
    and that is also an intriguing theory. Helen Wambach Ph. D. and Dr. Ian Stevenson's research does prove something....... but what is actually proven is subject to a wide ranger of interpretation.
     
  7. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Actually.... no... I hadn't read it yet I posted it first so that I would be able to find it later on. Now I will take a look.......

    Aha yes.... just an intro in easy language......

    http://www.mikepettigrew.com/afterlife/html/dutch_study.html
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2018
  8. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wow... thank you for this.... This is awesome!!!!

    Dr. Maurice Rawlings found that of his patients who did NOT report an NDE.......
    if he hypnotized them and took them to the day of their heart attack..... They reported a scary NDE which they repressed from their memories...........

    The Void experience scares a huge percentage of us...... Which is why so many children report meeting dogs or cats or other pets during their NDE to make them feel comfortable..... For the record I did wade through one of the rather large Ken Ring Ph. D. books back in the 1990's.... but it was pretty dry....... but parts of it were sure impressive to me.

    It is possible for an Atheist to react to The Void part of an NDE in a manner above FEAR!
    https://www.near-death.com/reincarnation/experiences/mellen-thomas-benedict.html#a05
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2018
  9. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    My theory is that there is something within us humans that has existed for an extremely long time before our birth........ even before our conception. That part of us actually may have existed before the Big Bang event of 13.72 billion or so years ago.......

    www.CarbonBias.blogspot.ca/

    I think that the word "shul" might be the word that Rabbi Alon Anava might use for this part of us that existed before our conception........

    My theory seems to be backed up somewhat by the fact that a near death experience like event can be produced by electrical stimulation of the right temporal lobe????
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2018
  10. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Pardon my ignorance but thst would seem to prove the exact opposite.
     
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  11. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You can look at it that way if you choose to, but the fact that the NDE experience can be replicated under essentially laboratory conditions could be considered evidence that there is something to the phenomena.

    Trigger #11 Extreme Gravity.... is the way to induce an out of the body experience and NDE like state of consciousness that I think you may tend to be the most interested in.

    I was referring to Trigger #5 when I mentioned electrical stimulation of the right temporal lobe. My idea is that the right temporal lobe could be the location of how our physical brain is connected to a hard drive..... that is not limited to the area of our brain or even our body.

    https://www.near-death.com/experiences/triggers.html

    Near-Death Experiences Induced By Triggers
    By Kevin R. Williams, B.Sc.

    If there was nothing more to the phenomena to indicate that something strange was happening I might have gone in the same direction with all this information that you have so far....... but..... I keep running into fascinating cases of spontaneous remission of severe medical conditions while somebody is having a near death experience!

    Jim Woodford was in a condition of chronic non-stop pain before his NDE..... he has an out of the body experience and not only is his whole approach to life changed.... but his severe medical condition with extreme pain goes away for some reason??????
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2018
  12. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    You need to give it up. NDEs have nothing to do with life after death or heaven any more than an LSD trip is proof of alternative universes.
     
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  13. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If that is what you wish to believe... .that is your choice......
    but the fact that you are at least taking a look at this topic is a
    good idea because Atheists have some of the most positive
    near death experiences. People really need somebody to talk to these days
    who is informed about all this........
    and if you take several steps away from thinking of yourself as an Atheist......
    and begin to term yourself more of an Agnostic...... and frankly a well informed one with an open mind..... you may well be far more encouraging and inspiring to the people in your life than if you went deeply into religion and preached fear at your family, friends and neighbours.

    If somebody's Atheism becomes very dogmatic.... it comes to strangely resemble
    a religion.

    Mellen Thomas Benedict is a great example of an Atheist.... who had attained a
    childlike love for life and learning.... and his NDE was awesome......
    much better than that of many deeply religious people who
    came to focus far too much on their fears.

    https://www.near-death.com/religion/atheism.html
    To my thinking...... NDE accounts, especially by Atheists and non-Christians.....
    is the fulfillment of this promise.......

    John 16:25
    “These things I have spoken to you in figurative language; but the time is coming when I will no longer speak to you in figurative language, but I will tell you plainly about the Father."

    Combined with the fulfillment of Isaiah chapters 42 - 46.... Messiah Yeshua - Jesus meets people who are not his followers...... but their judgment is not based on what most of his followers tend to expect.

    Aha... I just noticed that his NDE was not on that list:

    https://www.near-death.com/reincarnation/experiences/mellen-thomas-benedict.html
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2018
  14. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Some peopke are oblivious to fact.
     
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  15. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Even Richard Dawkins Ph. D. admitted in a debate that he personally could not rule out the possibility of life evolving on some other planet........ That civilization becoming technologically advanced.... and their bringing some forms of life to the earth and / or at least assisting somehow in the history of us humans here.

    I read "Chariots of the gods" back in the 1970's and I suspect that Dawkins probably read it too..... and refuses to one hundred percent rule out all of Erik Von Daniken's theories.

    I don't have audio right now so I am not sure if this is the correct video but the title sounds promising:




    I just ran into a cool quotation by AA on this:

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index...se-of-e-t-data-part-2.411555/#post-1065069108

     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2018
  16. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    The inability to rule something put does not give it any more credability or possibility. For instance the fact that we cannot prove there is a life after death does not increase the probability that a life after death exists. Nor does the fact that we cannot rule out the posdibility of unicorns existing somewhere in the universe make them any more plausible in this one.
     
  17. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Maybe 99% oblivious.... but facts eventually sink in.......


    Kat Kerr's dad really, really, really, loved animals and she was shown him...... with his pet pig that was eleven hundred pounds at the time she had died. Four pounds at the time that they bought the pig for him. Behind her dad was a trail of pets that looked like it was half a mile long...... including their pet alligator that they used to have in the bathtub that they had to take out of the bathtub before the fifteen kids scheduled their baths!

    She begins to talk about our pets being in heaven after the thirty four minute mark in this video.

     
  18. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You will find this statement intriguing........
    after the six minute mark in this video the speaker talks about how before his near death experience his IQ was 106 and he really had to study hard to remember anything but after his near death experience he took tests again and scored an IQ of 159.




    t's Rigged In Your Favor. Ft. Mill Spirit School! Session 3 Part 5- Kevin Zadai
     
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  19. JCS

    JCS Well-Known Member Donor

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    Modern science is always trying to understand what the ancients have always known. Modern science is not the gold standard of truth, but rather the gold standard of what I like to call "objective guesswork."
     
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  20. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    I agree with your main thought here, but I don't regard science as an exercise in "guesswork." I'd substitute the word "learning" in place of your term "guesswork." Science is constantly changing as new knowledge or understanding of any topic forces them to change. That's one of the greatest things about science--in its purest form, it allows our latest understanding of "truth" to be the determining factor, & that truth changes to adapt to our changing understanding. That way, truth remains the goal rather than dogma. (Though I am aware there are "scientists" who have fallen victim to dogmas, as well. But they aren't truly "scientists." They are dogmatists pretending to be scientists.)
     
  21. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Modern science is the pathway to objective knowledge, "'learning' in place of . . 'guesswork"".
     
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  22. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why do near death experiencers get a SURGE IN IQ? I first read about this in Psychology Today a couple of decades ago. Dr. Kevin Zadai states after the 1:25:00 minute mark in this video that after his near death experience his IQ went from 106 to 159 and he proceeds to explain a flaw in Einstein's Law of Relativity that I am going to have to listen to again to begin to understand what he just said......... (it was something about the C being wrong)????????????


     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2020
  23. JCS

    JCS Well-Known Member Donor

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    Modern science works from a place of severe ignorance. That's why it's a big guessing game, albeit useful in engineering/technological & some medical pursuits. First a question is posed...then guesses on what the answer is...then testing the different guesses...then finally settling on what is believed to be the best guess/answer (for that moment).

    But modern science doesn't hold the patent on the application of logic. We're learning all the time, and naturally apply logic in doing so...whether we realize it or not. Animals use logic as well in their practical efforts to obtain what they need/desire. Humans are the only species that actually analyses logic as rather pointless philosophical theories. I prefer to apply logic.

    However, there's another way to obtain answers that does NOT require the systematic use of logic, deduction, inference, math, study, trial & error, etc. It is by direct "communication" with that which is under observation. That which is being observed is always communicating with the observer...but the observer is most often unaware of what is being communicated.

    As an example, a gardener can, by trial & error, determine what & how much water/nutrients a plant needs, and when it needs it. But if that gardener could communicate with the plant, the plant would communicate its needs, and no trial & error, guesswork, or systematic logic would be required. Indigenous/aboriginal peoples have admitted to anthropologist Wade Davis that they acquired all their very complex botanical medicines by talking to the plants. George Washington Carver (the peanut guy) obtained his hundreds of plant derivations by talking to plants. Animals talk to plants as well, as is evidenced by the manner in which they know which plant to eat, what parts to eat, when to eat it, how much to eat, and in what form to eat it (eg, whole leaf, ground up, etc.). Aboriginal peoples also talk to inanimate objects, like rocks, water, clouds, mountains, the sun, etc.

    How is this possible? Because All is One. So ALL things are conscious/aware on some level. We live in an infinite sea of communication that most of us can't even hear/see. Psychics/sensitives & animals are hard-wired to have a greater awareness of this sea of communication, while most others get occasional or frequent "feelings" (eg, hunches, gut feelings, intuition, "vibes", premonitions, etc.). Cops will typically develop an intuitiveness about their surroundings & the people they interact with after years of working the beat. Eg, a cop may be driving along and he suddenly feels the need to turn down an insignificant street or alleyway where he unexpectedly encounters a crime in progress. This feeling/urge came about when some object(s) (animate and/or inanimate) communicated to him to do so. It could've been some trees that told him, or the sidewalk, the streetlights, a house, or the street itself...and the communication manifested as a "gut feeling" or urge. FBI & police interrogators will develop a sixth sense when it comes to questioning suspects, giving them the ability to detect lies that lies outside of their training. And non-psychic people can even develop psychic abilities by learning & using the tools of divination (eg, Tarot cards, I Ching, Runes, astrology, palmistry, etc.).

    And I know from first hand experience that this exists & is true because my girlfriend was born with the ability to communicate with animals & plants, and virtually all inanimate objects as well.
     
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  24. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Science is the key to all, by JCS's reasoning above. He does not see it, but he does argue for it.
     
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  25. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wow!!!!!

    Thank you immensely for this!!!!

    http://www.allaboutchristian.com/spirituality/

     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020
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