Will near death experience accounts transform psychiatry and psychology?

I agree with your comment that "NDEs are a fact. I also agree they don't connect with any specific religion. But I disagree with your assertion that they don't connect to an afterlife. There are too many powerful events described in NDEs that can't be explained by any other way other than consciousness survives physical death--and that supports the afterlife as a fact.

 

Reports of NDE’s are noted by those experiencing them to be directly related to whatever religion said person was involved in. And yes, they can be explained. And have been.

 

Sorry but that just is not true. None of what happens in NDE's requires superstition as an explanation. People used to think that eclipses were demons swalllowing the sun. Just because science cannot explain everything all the time doesn't mean anything supernatural is occurring

And of course the fact that the supposed afterlife is justified by NDE's is totally debunked by the fact that in actual death no evidence of an afterlife has ever been found. That is a fact and it says beyond doubt that NDE's are a totally different phemonena from actual death.

 

NDEs don't follow any religious determinants, but experiencers DO interpret their NDEs thru the filters of their own world views and beliefs.

 

I agree with your point that "none of what happens in NDE's requires superstition as an explanation." I also agree that NDE's themselves nor anything they reveal about the non-physical realities, are "supernatural." Actually, it's all perfectly natural. But, as I stated in a previous post, there are things that NDE'rs relate after their experience that cannot be explained by any known processes. For example, many NDE'rs who die in surgery under anesthesia, leave their bodies and go in spiritual form to the hospital waiting room where they observe their relatives interacting with each other while waiting for the surgery to end. Often, they can relate what was discussed and eve quote in perfect wording, things that were said during those conversations. One surgical patient described leaving the surgical room and flying upward thru the hospital walls and emerging from the hospital building along the roof, where they saw a weathered tennis shoe with stripped shoestrings. They told a nurse about the shoe and described it in detail, including the color, shape, weathere appearance and even noted that the shoestring was under the heel of the shoe on one side. The nurse was curious enough to go to the roof of the hospital and search for the shoe. She found it exactly where & in the exact shape & condition described by the patient, who had not been able to leave her room since her surgery. These things can't be explained in any other way other than the patient (who was clinically dead) having an out-of-body experience while in a non-physical body. And that means consciousness continues after physical death. There's lots of evidence to support this conclusion. And, it's neither supernatural nor connected with any particular religious beliefs.

 

This story requires the reader to buy into that. I’ve got an issue with the “evidence” here.

 

I met and interviewed the nurse who found the shoe, and she was both intelligent and honest. I believed her then, and still do. She told me, finding that shoe changed her view of reality. That's pretty powerful stuff.

 

I agree...... and near death experiencers tend to become spiritual......
rather than religious..... because I don't know hardly any "religious" person who would
make a statement anything like the following.


https://www.near-death.com/reincarnation/experiences/mellen-thomas-benedict.html#a09

 

Of course they can. Collusion, false recall, etc.etc. History is replete with frauds confirmed ghosts, confirmed rebirths and on and on and on. None of it is ever confirmed scientifically or happens when tests can be run. scientists have been investigating all kinds of supernatural hocus pocus forever and in the end none is ever confirmen.

 

And so anyone could have planted the shoe and then told the patient. Or the patient could have had the shoe planted. Or the patient could have gone to the roof before the surgery. This would be way to easy to fake. And reading it again exactly who was the " they " that told the nurse. They is more than one.

 

I understand your skepticism. I used to share it. But I found out I was wrong. Just to cite two examples, there were detailed specifics confirmed and described in detail in the writings of Dannion Brinkley and Dr. Eben Alexander. I recommend both to you.

 

If you have a need to believe then it works for you. I tend toward science and realize just how all these frauds collapse when subject to scientific scrutiny. Remember Bridie Murphy!

 

I am also a strong advocate for science, but there are aspects of our everyday reality that don't offer themselves up to traditional scientific scrutiny. One quick example: Love is a powerful force in our lives. It can be stronger than almost any other. Yet, love has never been an aspect of our daily lives that science has been capable of quantifying. We can't deny love's impact on our lives, yet we can't prove or disprove its existence thru scientific scrutiny. And love is only the beginning of aspects in that same category. This reality and we ourselves, are both more than we think they are.

 

Sorry but comparing an emotion and the afterlife is not a valid comparison. And to make your case even worse there is endless evidence for love and no credable evidence for an afterlife.

Took two sentences to blow the credability of the shoe on the roof proof and I can probably do just as well with any other " proof"

 

That is your subjective opinion. I see nothing factual or objective or supportive that you given for your assertion.

 

The problem with your "two sentences to blow the credibility of the shoe on the roof" assertion is that it DOESN'T disprove anything. It's simply your skepticism against the evidence. My post was very brief and incomplete. The book describing the incident went into far more depth with a lot more detail. Your assertion that there's "no credible evidence for an afterlife" is completely wrong. there's mountains of evidence and it's growing every day. Skepticism is a good thing until it blinds one to truth. I'm sad to say, I think yours does.

 

The standard of proofs for the natural and supernatural are different.

The two sides are talking past each other.

 

Well when you can post actual evidence from any scientifically credible source then you can claim knowledge of the truth. So far you have proven incapable of doing so.

And the fact that two sentences can blow away your shoe evidence is so far a fact. If you have evidence to disprove my explanations they should be easy to post. You know like the shoe was lost on the toof while he was inconscious and he gave his testimony to a scientist before talking to anyone else who could have told him of the shoe.

And no I am not going to waste my time reading the book since you have read it and if you believe it you should be able to defend it. At minimum you can pist the credentials of the author.

 

How do you come to that conclusion.

 

Through study, CJ.

 

Why would it transform any of the sciences that were aware of these occurrences when the sciences themselves were developing?

 

Well then perhaps you would care to expound on what criteria are required to constitute proof of the supernatural

 

I just started reading this article again........
I know that I read it years ago but this deserves to be refreshed......


https://www.near-death.com/science.html

 

If you really want to know this may actually help:

https://www.near-death.com/science/evidence.html#a11

 

No that is a rather idiotic opinion piece that tries to equate NDE experience with scientific theory. It is just pure babble. None of it has anything to do with science proving the afterlife or the supernatural.