without echoing NASA's statement, how would you defend this landing on the moon.

So as I said, you are going with "Van Allen radiation"....okay, so how is it that orbital manned space craft could withstand the 1000s of degrees of temperature upon re-entry....

but it is "impossible" for them to survive exposure to "space radiation"???


(BTW, you DO believe man has orbited the Earth, right?)

 

'Space radiation'....pfffftt

 

It's a stumper for those Moon Hoaxers who DO believe we orbited the Earth...but claim we "couldn't have gone to the Moon" due to "space/Van Allen radiation".

They have to explain why a manned spacecraft could withstand 1000s of degrees of re-entry....but it's somehow "impossible" for that same spacecraft to withstand radiation beyond the orbit of the Earth.

They're actually more consistant if they try to claim ....man has NEVER been in spece, not even orbital flights.

Plus as you saw, claiming the mirrors on the Moon were "put there by robotic probes" messes them up, since it would be MUCH simpler for a pilot and co-pilot (Armstrong and Aldrin) to land on the Moon.....than some primitive integrated circuit-driven Surveyor probe of the 1960s.

 

What a pathetic response. You rely on misinformation and useless links to support a claim that you know absolutely nothing about. The ISS passes through a strong area of the Van Allen radiation belts several times on a daily basis. Cosmic rays are largely kept at bay by our magnetosphere, but not always. Astronauts routinely spend months in space, suffering no long term ill effects. The actual path of the ISS, 51.65 degrees inclination results in the station reaching latitudes that are much less shielded by the magnetosphere and also the constant solar wind.

Your claim is nothing more than useless, uninformed tripe. Your routine cut and paste response is to then fall back on your - "it's already proven" - hogwash. It never occurs to you, that you are the problem. Your limited ability to understand basic scientific explanations and logic, stops you from letting go of this ridiculous claim you've been spamming for six years.

http://debunking-a-moron.blogspot.co.uk/

 

If a Moon Hoaxer loses the "space radiation" argument....they're left with nothing.

They already concede that we can land spacecraft on the Moon (robotic....in their claim that "robot probes put up the mirrors").....but a manned landing would be less problematic than a robotic landing since human pilots could compensate for drift, terrain, fuel useage, etc.....where a robot probe would have difficulty with that, especially with a 2 second delay in communication with Earth.

(Note: Armstrong and Aldrin nearly had to abort their landing due to fuel consumption. Armstrong was able to find a clear spot mere minutes before a mandatory abort would have occurred).

Again, without the "space radiation" they are left with nothing. Robotic landings were possible in 1969, they concede that. With no "killer radiation" theory, they have to conede that manned spacecraft COULD go to the Moon.

So with the technological and radiological objections answered.....there would be MUCH less need for a "conspiracy" and "faked landing"....if it would be much simpler and safer (from exposure later)....

to just actually send men to the Moon. Occam's Razor.

But given the beliefs of the Moon Hoaxers is a RELIGIOUS belief (in all but name)....naturally such logic would be dismissed by them.

We've noted before, that EVEN IF you loaded a Moon Hoaxer on a spacecraft next week....landed them at the Sea of Tranquility....and showed them the Descent Module, flag, and Armstrong and Aldrin's footprints......they would STILL deny it happened and would claim "You put all that stuff up here just a few weeks ago, just to fool me!"

Again, it's a RELIGIOUS thing....as are most ardent conspiracy theories.

 

No scott/cosmored/fatfreddy88/david C,I'm basing what I KNOW on years of growing up with kids whose parents WORKED at the manned space center,and the fact that if it was faked,why did they do it SIX times,A question I've asked more than once,with no answer from you,except a wall of spam

 

Hogwash! I base my opinions on 46 years of physics, evidence that stands the test of time, hoax claims that are complete crap and a whole host of incidental accounts and evidence from numerous 3rd party sources.

Irrelevant and unproven. You have no credibility. Your last link to radiation pointed to geocities which has been dead for 5 years! You know absolutely nothing about it, so scuttle away from answering the posts made towards you.

A claim of the worst hogwash possible. You don't get to dismiss the entire Apollo record because a few scientists make spurious claims. You impose no such veracity on your wall of spam and all the lying, incorrect and downright useless people who make those claims that you endlessly spout all over the internet.

 

The only people who know the true levels and nature of space radiation are people with high security clearances. All the rest of us know is what they tell us.

You seem to be banking on the viewers' not taking the time to look up what I posted so I'll repost it all here.

two sets of radiation data
http://hey_223.tripod.com/bulldogleb...oooo/id82.html
(excerpt)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To prove his thesis, Rene tries to get certain solar data from NATIONAL
OCEANIC & ATMOSPHERIC ADMINISTRATION, (NOAA) using clever techniques
to
disguise his true intentions, [i.e. to get true data on solar flares.] NOAA,
unfortunately, proved to be as cagey as Rene in dodging the giving out of any
really good DETAILS on this matter, [you know, where the devil resides.]
Rene, seeing games being played, deduced that there must be two sets of data,
one which is sent to scientists on the preferred list, and one sent to the
likes of Rene as casual strangers. (p.125)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.geocities.com/apollotruth/
(excerpt)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is an old saying that "A liar needs a good memory". Nowhere is this more true than in the Apollo program. NASA tell lies to cover up previous lies, and other discrepancies uncovered by people investigating the Moon landings. Altering previous data, removing photographs, and retracting statements made, only re-enforces the evidence that NASA are on the run, and being forced into a corner to which they cannot escape. The actions of those under investigation makes the investigator more aware they are bluffing. The longer that person, or persons, who make the extravagant claims continue, the more lies they have to tell in order to counteract it, until it reaches the point where it becomes ridiculous. That point was passed in July 1999, when NASA officials were questioned about the Moon landings on television. They dodged the all important questions like a drifter dodges the heat.
Many Apollo astronauts have long since died, as to have many of the original NASA officials involved in the scam, consequently current officials, who know that Apollo was a fake, have not quite got it right when talking openly in public. Perhaps the biggest slip of the tongue was made by NASA Chief Dan Goldin when interviewed by UK TV journalist Sheena McDonald in 1994. He said that mankind cannot venture beyond Earth orbit, 250 miles into space, until they can find a way to overcome the dangers of cosmic radiation. He must have forgot that they supposedly sent 27 astronauts 250,000 miles outside Earth orbit 36 years earlier.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

These two are important
---------------------------
http://www.buzzcreek.com/grade-a/MOON/articles1.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2rotplZn0g
---------------------------

http://ocii.com/~dpwozney/apollo5.htm
http://hugequestions.com/Eric/MoreInfoForScienceChallenge.html
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=9659&hl=apollo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKB5u_VTt6M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcytzf7PkRA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6DhY1NvmIc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1ltWMbHdDU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnckudD9oa8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiTzo3G_hvo
---------------------------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFiIR7hA1rM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toI1Xw9paW4
---------------------------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xlKooAbKpM
(23 parts)


No one who maintains the Chinese spacewalk was real, as you do, is to be taken seriously.
http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=362999&page=2&p=1064028979#post1064028979

 

Hogwash. The radiation data is used by hundreds of independent companies with telecoms systems in space. There are thousands of satellites in space, many in the Van Allen belts. If there was bogus data provided, how come none of them are malfunctioning?

 

Off topic spam. Anybody who makes the claim it was filmed in a swimming pool has the understanding of a child. Just the motion of the unrestricted flag in a vacuum, without billowing or friction of any kind, is enough to prove this could not possibly be filmed in water.

 

Yet another wall of spam....They went 6 times,why fake it that many times?

 

He's doing this deliberately so he can run off and claim censorship at his basketball forum - I won't post a link, but it is very amusing how he bleats on and on about almost every post he makes here. Don't expect an answer to your question, or on his radiation baloney. He knows nothing about space radiation and relies on sources written by people marginally less clueless.

 

This is classic sophistry. The issue is whether humans can pass throught the belts. Do you think it's possible to make a space probe or satellite that can withstand radiation that humans can't withstand?

You just make it clear that you are not to be taken seriously.

Viewers-

This guy is trying to sway those who don't take the time to look at the actual footage in question with rhetoric. Here's a link to it.
http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=362999&page=2&p=1064028979#post1064028979

If you don't have time to look at it, please withhold judgement until you do. Please don't be swayed by mere rhetoric.

 

I won't post the link but I'll tell you where it is. Do a Google search on "SpursTalk". Go to the "The Club" section. There's a thread entitled "Censorship on the Internet". Right now I'm posting on page #26:

 

It's directly relevant.

Subject to charged particles that are of certain intensity and flux. Subject to shielding. Do you have anything whatsoever to make your point. This endless spam is becoming very nauseous.

Absolutely. The design takes into account the intensity and flux and shields the electrical circuit accordingly. If the data given is extremely out of whack, any design criteria would be compromised far quicker than expected. That doesn't happen.

Explain why not!

What viewers? Nobody agrees with you or supports you. Off topic spam deleted.

eta: I don't recall ever being "checkmated" by somebody who has no pieces, no clue or no argument.

 

I always wonder what going to the moon has to do with basketball.....does he post his spam on boards catering to every genre?

 

How about the 800 pounds of rocks that were brought back, that have been studied by geologists for decades?

They have aspects about them that could not have been faked.

The total lack of any "conspirators" coming forward with deathbed confessions is also a huge hole.

As for the youtube videos claiming to "prove" a hoax:


Wake me up when you get someone directly involved in the hoax to come forward.

or

When you can adequately explain how NASA was able to fake 800+ pounds of moon rocks well enough to fool tens of thousands of geologists for 40 years.

Until then, the "I don't understand the video/photo footage" schtick got old, the first 999,999 times it got debunked.

The following assumptions are completely required for the ultimate "moon landings were faked" theory to be true:

1-The photos are all faked.

and

2-The videos are all faked.

and

3-Several people faked the photos and kept that secret.

and

4-Several people faked the videos and kept that a secret.

and

5-The physical evidence, i.e. rock and soil samples are all faked or were retrieved using robotic missions.

and

6-A large group of people faked the rock and soil samples and kept that a secret.

and

7- It was possible with 1960's era technology to fake hundreds of pounds of rocks and soil to make it appear to have come from the moon or it was possible with 1960's era technology to secretly bring back hundreds of pounds of soil.

and

8- Several people organized and coordinated these separate processes and they kept secret.

and

9- All of the astronauts are lying and in on the conspiracy.

and

10- All of the telemetry and systems data coming into the consoles at mission control were faked 24 hours a day for the duration of the missions in a manner good enough to deceive hundreds of NASA technicians, or the hundreds of NASA technicians were all in on it.

and

11-All of the thousands of people who have studied the samples brought back and all of the people doing peer-review on the scientific papers were either fooled by the perfectly faked rocks or in on it too.

and

12- All of the radio buffs, amateur astronomers and other non-govermental witnesses to the signals and spacecraft in flight didn't notice any anomalies, and/or kept quiet about it

and

13- The Soviet Union actively participated in the hoax, and all the radar/radio technicians, astronomers, etc. that might have been able to figure out that the US was faking the multiple flights were told to be quiet.

and

14- Everybody told to be quiet has kept quiet even on their deathbed or every single one of the confessions has been covered up. (this includes the geologists studying the faked samples too)

and

15- The people assigned to monitor and/or threaten everybody who had first hand knowledge of this also keep quiet.

and

16- The pictures from subsequent missions to the moon in which clear pictures of the landing sites showing artifacts exactly as NASA claims happened are faked.

and

17- The people that worked in all the subsequent missions were either duped by these faked pictures being snuck into the data streams, or in on the conspiracy too.

and

18-The range-finding reflective dishes on the moon were placed by secret robotic missions.

and

19- These secret 1960's era robots placed these reflectors more accurately than any other robotic missions did at the time.

and

20- All of the people who built and tested the rockets and other equipment were either duped or were in on it too.

The above series of "and" statements would adequately provide all the available evidence.

Therein lies the problem.

If ANY one thing in this long "and" statement is false, the whole thing is logically false.

This actually isn't enough for some of the conspiracy theorists.

They add to this a few things that aren't really quite necessary to fake the moon landings:

21-Radiation above low earth orbit is so intense it will fry a human being who is exposed to it for even a short time.

and

22- All the data concerning that radiation is faked, showing that radiation levels are low enough for a human to survive.

and

23- Everybody who has designed electronics for satellites that uses this faked data didn't notice that their equipment was failing at much higher rates than it should have.

The weakest links of course are the facts that no one has ever come forward to admit they actively took part in the faking/coverup, and that the most tangible evidence, namely the rocks, has been exhaustively studied for 40 years.

Next to those gaping holes, another "I don't understand the video footage" youtube video is just another stone on the fail pile.

Every single one of that big list has to be true in order for your theory to hold up. If even one link is broken, it falls apart like tissue paper in rain.

Hoax believers have not have as of yet, d a shred of proof of most of these assertions.

I want to see the design for the "robotic probes". I want first-hand testimony of ANYBODY involved in the hoax or coverup.

 

Welcome to the forum! Excellent list, it was what inspired me to put this video together:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyVJt857e7Q

Point no 23 was raised a few posts back and remains unanswered.

 

Everything on that list has plausible explanation that would explain it and none of it makes this clear proof that the footage was faked in a studio go away.
http://www.politicalforum.com/moon-landing/362999-air-caused-flag-move-so-obviously-studio.html

You say people would come forward and spill the beans. That would be downright dangerous.
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfYBJFPuiwE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipKyUVuQ2Uk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvay28lZiHU

Also, if someone were brave enough to come forward, the press wouldn't print his story (see this post).
http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=361646&page=3&p=1064224222#post1064224222

Some people who worked on the project were fooled.

http://theconspiracyzone.podcastpeople.com/posts/27709
(excerpts)
---------------------------------------------
Q: What about the vast number of people involved in Apollo, wouldn’t someone have spoken out.

A: Pan’s claim there were half a million people involved in the Apollo program, but that includes all the humble engineers working on machine parts in many companies around the globe. So if someone is making a part in some engineering factory in Seattle, and his boss tells him it’s for the Apollo spacecraft, is that engineer proof the landings took place? No of course it is not proof, and even if that engineer knew they never made it to the Moon, he would still brag to his friends that he made a part that went to the Moon just to make him feel proud in some way or other. Parts for the Apollo program were made at many different factories around the globe. For example the laser reflector supposedly left on the Moon was manufactured in France. NASA collected the unit from the French company, and that was the last they saw of it. It’s probably stashed away in some archive at Langley, but one things for certain it’s not on the Moon. Are those French engineers proof they landed on the Moon? No of course not, as very few, (probably less than 200 people), were actually involved in bringing the whole lot together, so as to minimize what was actually taking place. No need for any of them to speak out because (A) They are 100% patriotic to the USA, and would say nothing that would go against America, even if it were true. (B) They do not need millions of dollars to safeguard their future, as they have already received substantial amounts from NASA just to “keep mum”. Read comments from people who worked on the Apollo program in the APOLLO FEEDBACK section.
---------------------------------------------

A lot of scientists who know Apollo was faked would be committing career suicide if they came forward.
(exerpt from above link)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Why do prominent astronomers like Sir Bernard Lovell and Patrick Moore support the Moon landings if they were faked?

A: Scientists and astronomers around the globe know full well that the Moon missions were faked, but rely on NASA to gain access to the vital data beamed back to Earth from the Hubble space telescope. They cannot slag off NASA otherwise NASA would deprive them of this essential information, which they so much require.
---------------------------------------------

On this page there's a list of people who think Apollo was a hoax.
http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Moon_Hoax

You people have authoritative patronizing attitudes but what you're actually saying is very lame.

 

The classic Conspiracist appeal to "Secret Authority".

Reference: General Jack Ripper in "Dr. Strangelove" where he relates his "linkage" between water fluoridation and his own impotency....and he tells Captain Mandrake how the Russians "never drink water, just vodka" as proof that fluoridation is poisonous and a "plot by the Commies".

So with Scott there is "secret information" only the "Illuminati" have about "space radiation" that is unobtainable by others......OH EXCEPT, that Scott and his sources know that such radiation is completely deadly and it is impossible for spacecraft to be shielded against it.

HIS "secret authorities" are of course the "only ones with the REAL information"

 

There's the other classic Conspiracist manuever...."Threatened Authority Who Would Substantiate Me".


See, all the 99% of scientists who don't agree with Scott HAVE to fall into two categories-

1. "In on it"....that is part of the Conspiracy.

2. "threatened into silence or agreement with the Conspiracy"......people who WOULD back up Scott and his friends, except that they would lose their jobs....or if feeling particularly paranoid...."their lives".



BTW, here's a little heads-up on the future of "Moon Hoaxers". As satellite technology becomes cheaper, and any small group can put together the capital to launch one....you'll see either of two things-

1. Some con-man will start a long con on guys like Scott to "raise money to launch a satellite to the Moon that will PROVE that there are no human footprints on it." He (or she) will take in a lot of cash.....and finally bolt with it to the Caymans.

2. As lunar exploration expands to other countries, especially China.....we'll suddenly be told that "China is in on the conspiracy too"...especially as Chinese lunar orbiters return with enhanced details of the various Apollo landing sites.

Suddenly, the People's Republic of China....who were our bitter enemies in 1969....will become "allies of the Great Moon Landing Hoax started back in the 60s!!!!!". Throw in India and other nations as well. They'll all "be in on it" as they do surveys of the Moon.


Because make no mistake....this is a RELIGIOUS thing to guys like Scott....there is nothing and no one that will EVER convince them that Man walked on the Moon.....ever. It has zero to do with facts or logic or even "their own lying eyes".

 

The flag anomaly that I pointed out in post #94 has already proven the hoax but I want to see how these people go about trying to obfuscate this other anomaly.
http://www.aulis.com/stereoparallax.htm

Go ahead and obfuscate away.

 

This is called arm waving. You really think that your statement carries weight? You know less about space travel and the Apollo program than a small child.

Go on, list a plausible alternative to all those points!

As for your spammed repetition about faked footage - being totally unable to debate properly helps you to avoid seeing it all debunked.

 

You have proven nothing but a stubbornness to learn. It has been proven that air is the only thing that could not possible have caused the movement. It has been proven that lens flares move with the entire flag, indicating it as a video artefact. You lose.

There's nothing to answer. The man shows no scientific method in his analyses. He seems to think identifying an object and moving the camera to create a parallax effect proves his point. It does nothing of the sort. I found a short response from a genuine photogrammetry expert, Jay Windley:-

Your response to this in your own words?

 

The spam king has been told by ME twice that the Laser Ranging Retroreflector left on the moon by Apollo 11 was NOT built in France,but by the Bendix systems division in Ann Arbor Michigan...makes one wonder what else he has gotten wrong