Woman charged under felony murder doctrine for starting fight that led to her baby being shot

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by kazenatsu, Jun 27, 2019.

  1. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A woman has been charged under felony murder legal doctrine for starting fight that led to her baby being shot.
    The shooter is free, and the authorities blame the woman. (I can't say I entirely disagree with their decision here)

    A woman whose unborn baby was killed in a 2018 Pleasant Grove shooting has now been indicted in the death.

    Marshae Jones, a 27-year-old Birmingham woman, was indicted by a Jefferson County grand jury on a manslaughter charge. She was taken into custody on Wednesday.

    Though Jones didn't fire the shots that killed her unborn baby girl, authorities say she initiated the dispute that led to the gunfire. Police initially charged 23-year-old Ebony Jemison with manslaughter, but the charge against Jemison was dismissed after the grand jury failed to indict her.

    The shooting happened about noon on Dec. 4, 2018, outside Dollar General on Park Road. Officers were dispatched to the scene on a report of someone shot but arrived to find the shooting victim - later identified as Jones - had been picked up and driven to Fairfield. Police and paramedics then found the Jones at a Fairfield convenience store.

    Jones was taken from Fairfield to UAB Hospital. She was five months pregnant and was shot in the stomach. The unborn baby did not survive the shooting.

    "The investigation showed that the only true victim in this was the unborn baby," Pleasant Grove police Lt. Danny Reid said at the time of the shooting. "It was the mother of the child who initiated and continued the fight which resulted in the death of her own unborn baby."

    Reid said the fight stemmed over the unborn baby's father. The investigation showed, he said, that it was Jones who initiated and pressed the fight, which ultimately caused Jemison to defend herself and unfortunately caused the death of the baby.

    "Let's not lose sight that the unborn baby is the victim here,’" Reid said. "She had no choice in being brought unnecessarily into a fight where she was relying on her mother for protection."

    The 5-month fetus was "dependent on its mother to try to keep it from harm, and she shouldn’t seek out unnecessary physical altercations," Reid added.

    Jones will be transferred to the Jefferson County Jail where she will be held on $50,000 bond.

    News of Jones' grand jury indictment outraged many, including women’s rights activists.

    The Yellowhammer Fund, a member of the National Network of Abortion Funds which helps women access abortion services, released a statement Wednesday night. The group gained national attention after the passage of Alabama’s new abortion law.

    "The state of Alabama has proven yet again that the moment a person becomes pregnant their sole responsibility is to produce a live, healthy baby and that it considers any action a pregnant person takes that might impede in that live birth to be a criminal act," Executive Director Amanda Reyes said in the statement.
    https://www.al.com/news/birmingham/...-child-charges-against-shooter-dismissed.html


    It's felony murder doctrine. The legal doctrine says that if you commit a serious crime, you are responsible for the effects of that crime, even indirect effects when it was someone else who actually caused the injury.

    This type of legal doctrine is common in several states.

    I personally strongly disagree with this type of legal logic in general, or at least only 15% agree with it.


    related thread concerning felony legal murder doctrine: Injustice: homeowner shoots unarmed burglars, burglars guilty of murder


    I do think women have certain special obligations when they're pregnant though, to ensure the safety and wellbeing of their fetus, and stay out of harms way.
    It would sort of be like a woman who brings her infant with her while committing a bank robbery, and then in the ensuing gun fight with police the infant is hit. (sort of an extreme example, but you see the point)

    But it seems many Women's Rights supporters see this as a slippery slope, with a woman being held responsible for the death of her fetus, or risking legal consequences if she does certain things that lead to the unintentional harm or death of that fetus within her.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
  2. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    There aren't enough facts to form an opinion over what happened but NO, women do not have some "special" obligations because YOU think they do....
     
  3. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Alabama thinks she does.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
  4. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    No, they don't....those ignorant America hating CongressMEN only want to control and punish women who had sex......just because you and they think alike it still doesn't make it true.
     
  5. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    She's not being punished for having sex, she's being punished for starting a fight that ended up causing her unborn baby to be killed.
    She knowingly put her 5-month-old fetus in harms way.

    And the police have determined that it's her fault, not the person who shot her.

    You like to make the "self-defense" argument, FoxHastings, well here it is.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
  6. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    kazenatsu: Alabama thinks she does



    FoxHastings said:
    those ignorant America hating CongressMEN only want to control and punish women who had sex




    We were discussing YOUR comment about ALABAMA....did you forget already !?!




    That's NOT the polices' job.



    You have never understood the defense argument so why are you bringing it up....?? It doesn't apply here at all....
     
  7. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We have a case of a person who killed a fetus in self-defense. And YOU don't approve.
     
  8. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    THE HONEST UNCHERRY PICKED POST




    kazenatsu: Alabama thinks she does""



    FoxHastings said:
    those ignorant America hating CongressMEN only want to control and punish women who had sex""





    kazenatsu: She's not being punished for having sex, she's being punished for starting a fight that ended up causing her unborn baby to be killed.
    She knowingly put her 5-month-old fetus in harms way.""""




    FoxHastings: We were discussing YOUR comment about ALABAMA....did you forget already !?!""""""



    Kasenatsu: And the police have determined that it's her fault, not the person who shot her."""""



    FoxHastings: That's NOT the polices' job."""


    Kazenatsu: You like to make the "self-defense" argument, FoxHastings, well here it is."""


    FoxHastings: You have never understood the defense argument so why are you bringing it up....?? It doesn't apply here at all....





    That has nothing to do with the "self defense" argument in abortion.

    Those are two different incidents.


    Why would I approve of a fetus being killed? you seem to be happy about it, not me..



    And your hysterical "killed a fetus in self defense" is so funny....when was that person attacked by the fetus??
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
  9. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Are you being intentionally obtuse?
     
  10. The Centrist

    The Centrist Well-Known Member

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    This is a slippery slope argument. It’s problematic from the get go.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
  11. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    LOL! You can't address my posts so you think I'm being obtuse?? Hilarious...and sure proves my point and proves you have none :)
     
  12. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What would happen if you attacked someone while your 2 year old was with you and the 2 year old got killed?

    Yes, parents have an obligation not to put their children in harms way while committing crimes.
     
  13. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    Wow...so if I get into an argument with someone cutting me off in my car and he shoots me...it’s my fault? That is so disgusting
     
  14. ibobbrob

    ibobbrob Well-Known Member

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    Was the victim already out of the store and in her car when shot?
     
  15. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is Alabama. Assault someone and make them fearful about their personal safety and they can shoot you.

    The woman had it coming. The fetus did not. That's why she's gonna get punishment.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
  16. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    She fled the scene after being shot, and was found in the convenience store.

    Why would a woman flee the scene? A guilty conscience.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
  17. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It does beg the question... if the fetus had been only 19-weeks old instead of 5 months, would this case be heading to the Supreme Court?

    Would the Roe v Wade precedent about fetal viability still apply in a case like this?
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
    vman12 likes this.
  18. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You mean you strongly disagree unless there's an obscure case you think you can spin to support your personal position on abortion? :cool:
     
    kazenatsu likes this.
  19. BillRM

    BillRM Well-Known Member

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    It look like every woman in the great state of Alabama should get their tubes tied and only think about reversing the operation until they are no longer living in that state.

    Nor should any large company move to that state an by doing so subject their female employees to such a state laws.
     
  20. ibobbrob

    ibobbrob Well-Known Member

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    Flee after she was shot? Probably trying to get away from the shooter who had a weapon, yes? A second shot may have killed her.
     
  21. ibobbrob

    ibobbrob Well-Known Member

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    The woman did not have it coming by getting shot for arguing with somebody who cut her off. This was not a case of self-defense
    that required a weapon and you know it. It's about the gun problem in our country.
     
  22. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    FoxHastings said:
    There aren't enough facts to form an opinion over what happened but NO, women do not have some "special" obligations because YOU think they do....



    I never said anything different.
     
  23. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    Of course it’s the woman’s fault... she should never argue with a man because he can shoot her and it’s her fault .
     
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  24. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    no child died, my goodness, what a ridiculous prosecution, a pregnant women was shot in the stomach by someone else and they charge her for murder? get real....

    Greetings From Sweet Alabama
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
  25. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    she was in shock maybe... just a guess... as she was just shot

    could be the loss of blood too
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019

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