Yep, it’s all the parents fault... (sarcasm alert) . Of course she cannot be influenced by advertising or movies and television or by peers. I love it when people make excuses to fit in a nice little tiny box. You act as though athletes don’t care about their looks. And to be honest I don’t know your daughter so I can’t say what she thinks
Of course it's the parents' fault. Are you suggesting it's 'society'? When you know well enough that plenty of girls and young women are never impacted negatively by media etc? You know, all those well educated and ambitious 'nerd' girls? Girls will only be easily influenced by movies/advertising/tv/peers when they are lacking in both organised activities, and in self-esteem. Both of which are the parents' responsibility. When you keep your kids busy ... with education, family adventures, sports, and hobbies ... AND you reinforce their self-worth via your demonstrated commitment to their welfare and well-being (which doesn't look anything like the parent who indulges their own stuff ... sending their child the message that he/she is not worthy of more), you end up with kids who are very resistant to both emotional dysfunction, and to being led astray. It really ain't rocket science. Anyone who leaves the fate of their kids to 'society' - IOW, chance - is either brain dead, or bone lazy. Perhaps both.
I have a book coming out next year dealing with parents and adolescents.. It is two-sided. One side I address teenagers and the other side I address the parents..Let me tell you one of the first things I say. Some of the best parents have the worst kids and some of the worst parents have the greatest kids. When kids become adolescents, parents opinions are not as I portant as you would like to think. I don’t mean to say that parents aren’t important, as they are very important.But there is a reality and that is healthy teenagers start separating from the parents and all we can hope for is that the separation is healthy. I did a workshop for parents of adolescence and one father was so angry because his son pierced this year and another mother said that she would give her eyeteeth if that was her worst problem. She went on to say how our daughter ran away from home and did drugs Remember I taught sex education to hundreds of teenagers who privately journaled tell me where they spilled their guts out because I was safe. I remember one mother came up to thank me for the advice I was giving her daughter. First I told her she had no right to read her journal but I kind of kept in mind when I responded that parents would be reading it. She said to me that her daughter tells me more than she tells her, and I told her that my daughter would probably tell her more than she would tell me. Age appropriate
While I commend you for being interested enough to write on the topic, I'm afraid I cannot agree with much of what you believe. EG - No, 'best parents' do not have 'worst kids'. That's an oxymoron. If your kids are bad, that is the evidence that you have not been a good parent. There is no other measure. No matter how great you think the parents in question are, the fact that their child has failed tells you that you are mistaken. Mistaken in your assumptions about their parenting. Clearly, you're missing something very important - probably something they are doing at home, which you will never know about or see. Probably something the child doesn't even recognise as problematic. And you are also most misguided if you think teenaged children are not heavily influenced by parents. That is actually a dangerous misconception, and I'm surprised you think it.
But it happens to guys too. Consider Donald Dump - small hands, fat butt, huge waistline, fake hair. The only thing missing is the lack of height but that's cause his height is normal.
No, if kids are bad it is very often the influence of peers. There are wonderful parents whose kids get hooked on drugs. Are you saying that you never experimented and did things behind your parents back? I sure did and I had great parents . And once again I totally agree with you that children are influenced by their parents but by the time they are adolescents we have to hope for the best.. I met 16 “Kids “ who I taught more than 40 years ago when I was a new teacher and now they are grandparents and some of them had wonderful parents and some of them have really bad news parents and they all are terrific adults.(I love Facebook) As I mentioned. I gave workshops in communicating with adolescents and you can be sure that the parents who attended were very caring people. But they all had problems. One woman said something I found really interesting, “I am the perfect mother. When my kids have parties I check and make sure that everything is on the up and up. But then I find out that they had vodka in the bathtub” does that make her a bad mother? I have met thousands of parents during my years of teaching and I have yet to meet one who didn’t encourage their children to do well. I was a mother figure to many kids who had parents who were addicted..some ended up no good and some ended up fine One thing I stress in my book and my workshops, do not condemn a parent unless you know the parents. My husband came from the worst parents and ended up one of the most outstanding men I know.Do his parents deserve the credit? Absolutely not
Yes Donald Trump is made fun of because he is extreme. His fake hair is extreme his being a bleach blonde is extreme. His fat ass is extreme. The small hands was from Marco and it’s funny We look for things to rip apart women, like Hillary’s ankles. She is an average looking woman and should have been treated that way. Trump is a joke
You still don't get it!!!!! If your kids end up negatively influenced by peers (or media), you have FAILED AS A PARENT!!! How on earth do you think childrens' characters are formed? By magical pixies? By sheer happenstance? By luck? I cannot imagine a more irresponsible approach to the matter. "Hope for the best?" Are you kidding? Well I'm sure that's a nice thing to tell yourself as you retire from close and active parenting, reassuring yourself and others that you've done your best, now it's up to the fates. And you ask about Vodka in the bathtub? At a teenage party? What planet are we on? OF COURSE she's a bad mother. She's a freaking disaster, clearly. Sorry, but if the child is in any way damaged or injured via bad choices, I can and do blame the parents, entirely. No one else is responsible. Not the magical pixies, not society, not dumb luck. As for your hubby, while you condemn his parents, they obviously gave him the tools for self-renewal. They may have failed in a myriad of other ways, but they did not fail in that.
No..you don’t get it! You are overgeneralizing. Parents give kids values, but very often the best kids think their parents values are just wrong. When I was a kid my mother told me I wasn’t allowed to listen to rock ‘n’ roll because of some of the lyrics. I listened to them anyway , not because I was a bad kid but because I just thought my mother was wrong. We can instill Our values but you’re naive to think their peers won’t have a big influence. Something else you need to understand is that kids who are healthy separate from their parents and it’s usually during adolescence and that’s why parents usually want to kill the teenagers. Not only is it common, it is necessary! You really don’t think that teenagers drink behind their parents back? You must’ve been a saint. You obviously misunderstood the story about the mother. She went down to the basement where the kids were partying and everything seemed fine, she later learned that some kids had brought vodka and hid it in the bathtub. Is she a bad mother because she didn’t check the bathtub? Kids will do what they want at a certain point....and I’m sure you did too. Many parents set values for their children and perhaps the values they set for their children area not the values the children believe are right. There are parents who will say that premarital sex is bad but what if they disagree? Does it mean the parent failed? Many young adults smoke pot ..are their parents failures because they told them not to and they did? I think you’re very naive and guilty of black and white thinking.
Yes he is. But two wrongs don't make a right. And there's plenty enough reason to criticize Trump. Otherwise, his defenders start using body shaming as a means of gaining sympathy for him.
With respect, Renee ... you're the naif. If you think that kids are destined to f up, in some small way or another, you are not just ordinarily naive, you're seriously naive. You really need to look further afield for your research, because it seems you're severely limited by the white, middle class, 'liberal west' approach to child rearing. One VERY BAD approach, easily condemned by every culture which has far better outcomes with their teens. And you rely on this one, VERY BAD, model for your information? Crazy stuff! Worse still, when you approach your parenting with the assumption that your teens will make poor decisions, you're basically telling them that it's inevitable. Talk about setting them up for failure! Why not reinforce the message that all of that crappy teenage stuff is the aberration? Aren't they worth it? A genuinely concerned parent never makes the assumption that those things are inevitable, and lives and acts accordingly. But more importantly, they can predict with an incredibly high rate of accuracy, that their kids WON'T do any of that shiite. There absolutely is method to this approach. If there wasn't, you wouldn't see so many kids make it through teen years without ever having sex, or drinking alcohol, etc. It doesn't happen by magic!
No, I didn't misunderstand. She's a disaster. a) why did she end up having to host such a party? kids shouldn't be having unsupervised parties in basements. that's insane. b) why did her kids WANT to have that kind of party in the first place? c) why did her kids think it was okay to bring alcohol in the house, especially if being consumed by underage kids? d) why did her kids even associate with drinkers? Answers: a) because she forgot to raise her kids to want better for themselves than drunken basement parties b) because she forgot to raise her kids to want better for themselves than drunken basement parties c) because she forgot to raise her kids to want better for themselves than drunken basement parties d) because she forgot to raise her kids to want better for themselves than drunken basement parties I have raised three teenagers, and none of them have ever had a 'teenager' party, nor even been to a party at which alcohol was present. They are all past the age where this stuff often starts, too. But I should add here, my kids are not 'dumb innocents', raised by stitched up conservatives. They are knowledgeably opposed to the standard 'bad choice' options that teenagers go in for - considering such poor choices very low-brow. Instead, they take on physical challenges, spend time outdoors hiking and camping etc, they travel, they excel at academics (they regard it as a sport), they compete in sports, etc etc. And they mix with like-minded kids. Plenty of active, ambitious, and clean living kids out there who don't care for dissolution or rebellion.
No one with a sane mind can possibly believe this is true. Children who are shown love, consideration and encouragement will obviously be much more successful than children whose parents hit them and put them down. There are few exceptions (as always) where some mistreated kids will become world-famous superstars. Even if a kid is bullied and does bad because of that, the parents are to blame for not picking up the signals and engaging with their child(ren). One great predictor of "failure" is children who grown up in single parent households. Good parents will ensure the "separation" is a healthy one and they will also be able to handle their teenager's "rebelness".
Well I suggest you read my book. It will be out in November hopefully. By the way I have a “sane mind “ ( gee another personal insult) and know a hell of a lot more about teenagers than you ever will , ..and obviously you know very little about adolescents but like everything else, it’s extreme. “Good parents always have good kids and bad parents have bad kids. , not the real world Kids who are bullied often act out even though parents give wonderful,advice. And it’s not the parents fault
Good parents retain significant influence well into the teen years. And it's not demanded, or forced. It's automatic .. because they raised their kids right in the first place. Their kids wouldn't dream of wilful disobedience, and they have nothing to rebel against. FTR, kids rebel PRIMARILY against neglect, not 'too much supervision'. I'm surprised Renee doesn't know this. It's a fundamental misunderstanding which arose in the 1960s in the West. Rebellion against respectful, closely involved parents is actually quite rare.
In the real world, the vast majority of 'bad' kids will have had bad parents. You simply cannot pretend otherwise. A few exceptions here and there are not what should be guiding us.
Ok...everything is nice and simple. I really have to laugh that I don’t understand adolescents. I have only been a confidante to thousands of them, had three publishers wanting to print my book coming out and give workshops to parents of adolescents. My daughter also knows nothing, being a high school counselor....oh, if only life was as simplistic as you see it. Black and white world
I applaud your successes in the field, Renee. But we'll have to agree to disagree. My background is in a loosely related field, and I've spent decades studying and researching parenting around the world, and closely follow stats on outcomes - both long and short term, etc. Frankly, about the worst model I've yet found belongs to the late 20thC West. A dismal failure ... in almost all meaningful measures. Very little about the approach has produced benefit to the young adult. If you want to understand successful parenting, look for successful young adults, and work backwards. Of course, much depends upon your notion of 'successful'. Personally, I regard it as young adults who are stable, responsible, productive, clean-living, and discerning. These are the base tools for reasonable survival, and the ideal foundation upon which the young adult can build a life as they see fit. So, for me it's about Foundation. When I see kids with a fine foundation, I pay very close attention to how they have been parented. It strikes me as odd (and I've said this before) that someone genuinely interested in the best outcomes for kids, would not thoroughly research a variety of parenting models, and be guided STRICTLY by best outcomes, rather than by personal comfort and familiarity. Especially when the most familiar model is arguably producing the worst results.
I think we are probably in agreement on your basic premise but I think it is very dangerous to blame a kid who goes off the track on bad parenting when you don’t know the history of the child. Many parents who are really terrible produce incredible kids and I don’t think we should give them the credit. Each case is individual but I agree that stable homes will probably have fewer difficulties . One other thing that is really important is that today’s kids have much different values than their parents. As you know I do workshops in prejudice. When I first started these which was about 25 years ago the question was should gay people marry and practically every adolescent said no. Now it is the opposite they all say yes. Now if parents are teaching their children that being gay is a sin and disgraceful, Some might think that’s good parenting and if the kids is gay, so you blame the parent?if the kid is straight, do you credit the parent? There are so many exceptions… And that’s why my book is needed...I’ll even send you a copy
1) I think it's incredibly dangerous and incredibly unfair NOT to blame parents. When we refuse to look at the primary source, we fail to improve attitudes (to parenting). We basically let parents off the hook, and worse, blame the child instead. We might think we're blaming 'society' or 'peers', but what we're really saying is that in order to protect parents, we're willing to incriminate the child's choices (and thereby the child) by calling such choices independent. Rare exceptions should not even register in this pretty awful scenario. They're outliers, and don't help at all. 2) No, 'today's kids' don't have 'much different values' to their parents. SOME kids, today and yesterday and tomorrow, have different values to their parents. There is nothing chronological about this phenomenon, it's entirely cultural. Plenty of kids embrace their parents' values.
Many children deviate from parental upbringing and have unapproved Freinds, take drugs, drink alcohol, have sex, are Gay, all things their parents taught them is wrong, so how do you blame parents ?
I never said that Ron. Only that in spite of being taught differently, children often follow another path. I know, I followed another path and it was NOT a revolt or rebellion against parental authority, I simply had a difference of thought.
