WSJ: Trump colluding with Ukraine

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Golem, Sep 20, 2019.

  1. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

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    Yup that why fictional information is so popular among the left, they are always LONG, full of Estrogen producing drama and helps them get thru a day or two of their sad lil lives ;)
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2019
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  2. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    Tell me now, who was trolled?
    Now lets see the report.
     
  3. stone6

    stone6 Well-Known Member Donor

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    I'll bet they dropped the part about Trump promising the new President of the Ukraine a spot on "The Apprentice."
     
  4. Lesh

    Lesh Well-Known Member

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    trump was ASKING for Ukraine to collude at any rate
     
  5. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Breaking news! The whistleblower has been identified as Corn Pop! Developing...
     
  6. Lesh

    Lesh Well-Known Member

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    Troll post
     
  7. hudson1955

    hudson1955 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    None of them worthy of a Senate vote because the President and Republicans won't vote yes. The Democrat Commitees are a joke.
    Especially those chaired by Nadler.

    From the day the President was elected their entire agenda has been to refuse to work with him even on those things they had always supported. Nadler is the saddest example of this.

    Everything they accuse the President of doing, they have already done. They are good at covering their tracks, and they
    Lie, over and over.

    Wish republicans were as good as them. But, I believe Republicansns will get off the couch and organize protests in the next election tion. Because we are smart and see through the entire Democrat shake down against the President before he wax even elected
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2019
  8. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Donor

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    In the hopes that he would appear transparent, Trump threw himself on the mercy of the court, so to speak, and released both a transcript of the July 25th phone call to President Zelensky of Ukraine and the whistleblower complaint, although the latter is still classified and cannot be released to the public. However, the transcript alone is proof the President violated the Constitution and federal law by asking a foreign power to intervene in our election on his behalf.

    Keep in mind, Trump stopped a military aid package to Ukraine five days before this phone call, and House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff told reporters, "There is no quid pro quo necessary to betray your country or your oath of office. Even though many read this as a quid pro quo. I'm not concerned whether it is a quid pro quo or not. Ukraine understood what this President wanted."

    That said, while Trump didn't come out and say, "I'm bribing you," clearly there was quid pro quo.

    Zelensky mentioned that Ukraine is ready to buy more Javelin missiles from the US. Trump responded by saying, "I would like you to do us a favor."

    "The United States has been very very good to Ukraine. I wouldn't say that it's reciprocal necessarily because things are happening that are not good but the United States has been very, very good to Ukraine," Trump said.

    Of course, Zelensky agreed, and told Trump the US is a "much bigger partner" to Ukraine than other European countries. Zelensky has agreed to everything Trump has said during this episode. The very last thing the Ukrainian president wants to do is anger Trump. Trump holds the key to the defense of his country from the ongoing Russian aggression.

    Trump had no qualms about using that leverage.

    Trump then proceeded to pressure Zelensky for cooperation with his political agenda, urging him to start corruption investigations while stressing the United States’ role in military assistance for Kiev.

    Trump rambled on about the 2016 elections, something about a server called Crowdstrike, Robert Mueller, and the former ambassador from the United States, "the woman," Trump said. Finally, he got down to hard cases. "The other thing, There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it... It sounds horrible to me," Trump said.

    In addition, Trump urged Zelensky to work with Attorney General William P. Barr on potential corruption investigations connected to former Vice President Biden, his son, Hunter, and an unsubstantiated theory about stolen Democratic emails in 2016.

    "Trump’s suggestion that American law enforcement be directly involved and in contact with Ukraine’s government marks the first evidence that the president personally sought to harness the power of the United States government to further a politically motivated investigation," the New York Times.
     
  9. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Awww someone just read the transcripts and realized there was no quid pro quo!

    Don't worry, there will be another fake scandal next week.
     
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  10. Lesh

    Lesh Well-Known Member

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    It was a troll post. But we're used to you doing that as well as "being intentionally inaccurate" which is as close to the actuality as this site will let me go.

    A quid pro quo is not neccessary. It is a gross abuse of power just to ASK a foreign power to open a bogus investigation of a political rival.

    And yes...there was ALSO a quid pro quo.

    Zelensky mentions that he needs to buy more Javelin missiles and the next this Trump doies is say

    "Well I wouyld like to ask you a favor THOUGH"...and proceeds to ask for an investigation of Biden
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2019
  11. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    If I've been "intentionally inaccurate" please note it so I can correct the record.

    As for your quid pro quo, maybe we're reading different transcripts, but the favor Trump asks for after Zelensky mentions the Javelins has to do with Crowdstrike, and he explicitly is asking in reference to the Attorney General. That's clearly a reference to the ongoing investigation on the origin of the counterintelligence probe on the Trump campaign which the Attorney General said he was going to look into. That's a legitimate investigation and has nothing to do with any "political rival".
     
  12. Lesh

    Lesh Well-Known Member

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    Here is an example of you being intentionally inaccurate. Thank you.

    The very NEXT thing Trump asks for is that Bogus Biden investigation.
     
  13. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    From the transcripts:

    President Zelenskyy:...We. are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps. specifically we a·re almost. ready to buy more Javelins from ·_ the United· States for defense purposes .. .

    The· President: I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike ...


    So I guess you were being intentionally inaccurate?
     
  14. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    Just in.
    There was an earlier prone call where Trump ask Ukraine to work with Rudy 911.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2019
  15. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Donor

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    A bit premature. See the post above yours, post 508.

    Please explain the "fake scandal" and be specific, no generalizations.
     
  16. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Donor

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    Are you really that naive?

    Trump rambled on about the 2016 elections, something about a server called Crowdstrike, Robert Mueller, and the former ambassador from the United States, "the woman," Trump said. Finally, he got down to hard cases. "The other thing, There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it... It sounds horrible to me," Trump said.
     
  17. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Donor

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    It is called misdirection. You know what that is. You do it all the time. Trump knows there is a record of this conversation, and he tries to mislead.

    Would it be better for you if he said, "I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out about the other thing. There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it... It sounds horrible to me."

    Essentially, that is what he said. I noticed you are using misdirection. You are avoiding Trump's statements concerning the Bidens, the real reason for his phone call. Why else put a hold on the military aid to Ukraine five days before the phone call?

    Either you are trying to deceive us or you are incredibly naive.
     
  18. bradt93

    bradt93 Well-Known Member

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    If the Bidens committed a crime, shouldn't they be investigated or does the law not apply to democrats?
     
  19. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    If there is one person who shouldn't need a fake scandal explained to them, it should be you!

    For your edification, a fake scandal is one that the media handlers for the DNC roll out every week or so. They all sound sorta plausable, until the facts come out, but that's usually much later, after you've posted about 30 threads with much type in bold. A recent example was the Scottish Airport freakout, where you guys thought you were really going to impeach Trump on the emoluments clause. Then of course the truth comes out and it fades away...until the next "scandal."
     
  20. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    "something about a server called Crowdstrike...." yeah, something something that ole' thing?
    Ha!

    I was responding to someone who read what people like you wrote about the transcripts instead of the actual transcripts. You are free to read the excerpted text in post 513.
     
  21. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Misdirection huh? You ain't kiddin'

    Wow, so rather than go by what Trump actually said, you are going to instruct on the deeper meaning of the text, hidden in the penumbras and emanations from the text. Not it's actual words.

    Hey I dig it... You're a deconstructionist. Words only mean whatever you decide you want them to mean after the fact...
     
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  22. Lesh

    Lesh Well-Known Member

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    Zelensky for his part is surprised by none of this. Ghouliani had been buzzing around Ukraine for months pressing the Crowdstrike thing and pushing to get Ukraine to help him attack Biden

    Crowdstrike is a Russian meme that supposedly exonerates Russia in the 2016 hacking

    Putin smiles
     
  23. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

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    There was no quid pro quo.

    The only way to arrive at that conclusion that there was is with a great deal of assumption and speculation.

    Especially when one considers this claim by another New York Times reporter.

    https://twitter.com/kenvogel?lang=en

    Unconfirmed but MANY of the details of this story are unconfirmed.

    If it is true and the Ukrainian president was unaware of the aid being froze until a month later then there absolutely was not a request for an exchange or quid pro quo.

    If it is false then you are still left with a big maybe.
     
  24. stone6

    stone6 Well-Known Member Donor

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    It's called "original intent" based on textual analysis. The late Justice Scalia was famous for it.
     
  25. therooster

    therooster Well-Known Member

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    Foiled again sandy.....lol. you will probably be right next thread you create and put Trump away once and for all.... lolol.... your 0- 673 . So your definitely due to be right one of these days. Lemme guess you voted for Hillary .... lolollololol
     
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