WSJ: Trump colluding with Ukraine

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Golem, Sep 20, 2019.

  1. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Oh, is that why he doesn't take a salary from the job?
     
  2. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Is the 'tax money' element the only thing which makes it criminal in your mind?
     
  3. Mac-7

    Mac-7 Banned

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    In the typical liberal mind trumps mere presence in office is a crime

    They much prefer being ruled by corrupt swamp rats like joe biden
     
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  4. Lesh

    Lesh Well-Known Member

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    It is ILLEGAL for an American to solicit election support from a foreign source

    It is ILLEGAL for an American official to use the power of his office for personal gain whether it be political or financial

    The memo (it wasn't a transcript) lays both out clearly
     
  5. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    And you are unable to stand up to scrutiny, as evidenced by your inability to respond to my scrutiny.
     
  6. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Original intent is based on the plain language reading of the actual words in context with the language and legal use of the time it was written.

    It's not making stuff up, which is what Sandy was doing.

    Nice try though. I expect to see a lot of wacky explanations for why black is white and up is down during this.
     
  7. Capt Nice

    Capt Nice Well-Known Member

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    That's a good 'front' for his base. I'd bet his annual salary is less than the money he's raking in each day he's in office. I know it can't be proven but that's my opinion non the less.
     
  8. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Donor

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    I have asked this several times on different threads, and I have yet to get an answer. We know what Trump did wrong. He asked a foreign power to intervene in our Presidential election on his behalf and used military aid approved by Congress to extort the foreign government to comply.

    What did the Bidens do wrong?

    Your "if" implies you have no idea, but that is what Trumpets are talking about. Why? They know Trump committed an impeachable offense. Trump and the Trumpets want to change the subject. It is a pathetic response.

    Biden has taken credit for getting the prosecutor removed, boasting about it as a win for anticorruption in the country.

    But there's little evidence he acted to help his son: Earlier this year, Bloomberg News, citing documents and an interview with a former Ukrainian official, reported the Burisma investigation had been dormant for more than a year by the time Biden called for the crackdown on corruption. The then-Ukrainian prosecutor general told the news agency he found no evidence of wrongdoing by Biden and his son.


    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/20...ump-s-biden-ukraine-accusations-what-n1057851

    So much for your "if."
     
  9. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Donor

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    Perhaps if Trump had said, "I'm going to bribe you," that would convince you.

    No, all that is required is common sense. I can see where that would be a problem for some.

    A tweet??? Sheer desperation. For all we know, you could have written that message.

    "Ifs" again, Trumpets are basing their reasoning on "if's." The know their boy is in hot water and "if's" are all they got.
     
  10. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Donor

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    When will Trump learn to keep his mouth shut? When will he learn to stay off daytime television when the cards are stacked against him? It is getting downright embarrassing the way Trump incriminates himself.

    After all, the idiot is our President. Geez, he is stupid.

    Putin knew what he was doing when he sponsored Trump.
     
  11. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Donor

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    What did I make up? For once in your life, be specific. Please, no false accusations without a basis, such as the above post.
     
  12. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Donor

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    Not at all. I am going by what Trump said. You seem to have a serious reading problem, or you enjoy making a fool of yourself.

    In the post you responded to Trump said, "I would like you to find out about the other thing. There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it... It sounds horrible to me."

    That is about as clear as one can get. Trump is asking a foreign power to intervene in our Presidential election on his behalf and he used the military aid intended to fend off Russian aggression as a bribe. Five days before the phone call, Trump withheld the funds. During the phone call, Trump said, "I would like you to do us a favor."

    Only a person with extreme naiveté can't understand the connection.
     
  13. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Sorry I don't have enough time for a complete list from this thread. Here's a taste however.


     
  14. stone6

    stone6 Well-Known Member Donor

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    Biden is the "red herring." What Trump really wanted from the Ukrainian President is something to prove "The Crowdstrike Conspiracy Theory" is true and that the Russians didn't hack into the DNC...which would be the beginning of "roll-back" of everything in the Mueller Report, including the indictments.
     
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  15. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

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    There is no evidence he tried to brive anyone.

    Wrong common sense dictates that the transcript shows some discussion of Biden's son but no mention of withholding aid. In order to find extortion or quid pro quo you have to speculatye and guess.

    The New York Times has also reported on the detail of that tweet.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/23/us/politics/trump-un-biden-ukraine.html
     
  16. stone6

    stone6 Well-Known Member Donor

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    That'll be covered in the impeachment inquiry. Why was the aid withheld? There is plenty of evidence that it was withheld...indluding the admission of the President. The question is why?
     
  17. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

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    True.

    But also did the President of Ukraione know it was withheld?
     
  18. stone6

    stone6 Well-Known Member Donor

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    Good question. I was looking for that discussion in the "transcript" of their conservation and wondering why that didn't come up? Was there a prior discussion? Had he not been informed? Don't have an answer. The whistleblower doesn't have an answer either. From the last paragraph of the letter:
    "On 18 July, an Office of Management and the Budget (OMB) official informed Departments and Agencies that the President "earlier that month" had issued instructions to suspend all U.S. security assistance to Ukraine. Neither OMB nor the NSC staff knew why this instruction had been issued. During interagency meetings on 23 July and 26 July, OMB officials again stated explicitly that the instruction to suspend this assistance had come directly from the President t, but they were unaware of a policy rationale. As of early August, I heard from U.S. officials that some Ukrainian officials were aware that U.S. aid might be in jeopardy, but I do n to know how or when they learned of it."
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
  19. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    No. Certainly not. That's just to mention something that might draw a conservative's attention. If there are still any supporting Trump. Other implications of this such as corruption, abuse of power, campaign finance violations, lack of patriotism, electoral fraud, ... etc... don't seem to interest Trump supporters. They just love him because he bashes foreigners who don't make any money for him.
     
  20. Lesh

    Lesh Well-Known Member

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    Zelensky knew exactly what Trump was talking about. the minute Crowdstrike came up, Zelensky mentioned Ghouliani. He had been under pressure from the Ghoul for MONTHS on the Crowdstrike thing and the Biden thing. He knew exactly where Trump was going

    Remember Ukraine is fighting for it's very life. They NEED that military assistance and Trump is leveraging that for political electoral gain and to help his buddy Putin
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
  21. stone6

    stone6 Well-Known Member Donor

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    I wouldn't doubt it, but is there proof that's what Giuliani was after? Could be, either from himself under oath, or the Ukrainian officials he talked to? Much more than Joe Biden riding on this. I suspect he's the red herring, similar to the way the Steele Dossier was used. The real target is fabricated evidence that would indicate the Russians were NOT behind the election interference (particularly the DNC hacking) to destroy the government's accusation that Stone was the "bagman" between the campaign and Wikileaks and possibly justify a pardon to Manafort (who may have knowledge of Stone's role).
    IMO, this could be "the smoking gun" Mueller never found on the conspiracy investigation. He seemed to be depending on testimony from Manafort at one point and then Manafort went back on his deal with the government...perhaps because of a promised pardon.
     
  22. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Donor

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    This is truly unbelievable. Now Trump threatens those working in the White House with death.

    Trump told members of his staff from the United States Mission to the United Nations that he wants to know who provided information to a whistle-blower about his phone call with the president of Ukraine, saying that whoever did so was “close to a spy” and that “in the old days,” spies were dealt with differently.

    “I want to know who’s the person who gave the whistle-blower the information because that’s close to a spy,” Trump said. “You know what we used to do in the old days when we were smart with spies and treason, right? We used to handle it a little differently than we do now.”

    In the "old days" spies were shot.

    Incredible. This guy really is quite stupid. Is Trump losing it?
     
  23. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Donor

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    Trump said, "I would like you to find out about the other thing. There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it... It sounds horrible to me."

    On Aug. 12, consistent with the procedures established in the Intelligence Community Whistleblower Protection Act, an unidentified whistleblower sent a disclosure and complaint to the inspector general for the intelligence community.

    The inspector general determined upon preliminary review that the complaint was credible and that it related to a matter of “urgent concern (a statutory classification). The inspector general then transmitted the disclosure to the director of national intelligence (DNI), as required by law.


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...ligence-ig-why-is-it-being-withheld-congress/

    The inspector general was appointed by Trump.

    The acting DNI broke with Trump and his Republican supporters Thursday, defending a whistleblower and intelligence committee watchdog who exposed contacts with Ukraine that could help lead to the President's impeachment.

    "I believe that the whistleblower and the inspector general have acted in good faith throughout. I have every reason to believe that they have done everything by the book and followed the law," said acting Director of National Intelligence Joseph Maguire, testifying before the House Intelligence Committee.


    https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/26/politics/maguire-house-intelligence-committee-testimony/index.html

    The acting DNI was appointed by Trump.

    The Republican-led Senate voted unanimously in favor of a resolution on Tuesday calling for a whistleblower complaint involving President Donald Trump to be turned over to congressional intelligence committees.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/senate-unanimous-vote-trump-whistleblower-complaint-2019-9

     
  24. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Donor

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    "A Ukrainian official said Mr. Zelensky’s government did not learn of the delay until about one month after the call."

    You don't get it, do you? The Ukrainians will say anything in support of Trump. The need the military aid.

    What are you saying? Trump withheld the military aid approved by our Congress, and the Ukrainian president didn't learn about until a month went by? Is that what you believe?

    Notice the Times mentioned it in passing. They gave it no credence. Neither do the networks, including Fox, and neither does the internet.
     
  25. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

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    Lolol what I am saying is very clear

    they might not have known it was clear during the phone call on which case your desperate need to say it was extortion is up in flames

    Believe it or don't it is as credible as your claims
     

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