WSJ: Trump colluding with Ukraine

Well... I got news for you: Presidential candidates are supposed to "meddle" in our electoral process.

But by convincing voters. Not by braking the law, like Trump does.

 

Trump said, "I would like you to find out about the other thing. There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it... It sounds horrible to me."

Trump abused his official powers "to solicit interference" from Ukraine in the upcoming 2020 election, and the White House took steps to cover it up.

Several White House officials were "deeply disturbed" by Trump's July 25 phone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and tried to "lock down" all records of the phone call, especially the word-for-word transcript produced by the White House.

White House lawyers directed officials to remove the transcript of the call from a computer system that stores them for Cabinet-level officials and instead put the transcript in a system for especially sensitive information.

The White House has admitted moving details of a telephone call between Donald Trump and his Ukrainian counterpart to a classified server. They claimed the
call was classified. The American people and members of Congress have been able to read the transcript of that call. Nothing was redacted. Nothing was classified.

It is interesting to note that Trump, those in the White House defending Trump, the few Republicans in Congress willing to defend Trump, and Trump supporters on this thread never go into the specifics of the call's transcript or the whistleblower's complaint. They use various vague, outdated characterizations and try desperate to change the subject, but they dare not venture into the substance of the alleged impeachment charges against Trump.



Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump

Rep. Adam Schiff totally made up my conversation with Ukraine President and read it to Congress and Millions. He must resign and be investigated. He has been doing this for two years. He is a sick man!

6:29 AM - Sep 27, 2019

Amazing isn't it.

 

When you see an incredibly stupid comment, ignore it. The Trumpet is trying to get you to waste your time.

 

I don't entirely disagree...the Clinton's (IMO) threw a lot of "working America" under the bus, in an effort to please the Establishment and make money. Hillary didn't return to Arkansas to run for the Senate. She went to New York. Robert Rubin was largely their "conduit" to Wall Street. I voted for Hillary, but in the vein of her being the lesser evil. To use an old southern saying...I was willing to give them "toting privileges" rather than have Trump come in and take everything in the house. I didn't expect great things from her, but she is savvy, has a world of political experience, and probably not get us into too much trouble. Trump, on the other hand, is a modern day Don Quixote, titling at windmills. But, I give him a low bar to clear: no second Great Depression and no nuclear war. Beyond that, I don't expect much.
Not to go too hard on the Clinton's either. Presidents have been between the rock and the hard place since Carter in the seventies. High defense costs, aging population, growing debt, infrastructure improvements sacrificed to tax cuts and social programs, etc., etc. China was the temporary lottery win...a new sugar daddy...we gave them the "helping hand up," they bought our debt and built their own infrastructure. Today, GM sells more vehicles in China than in the U.S. Both Democrats and Republicans played to their respective rich, but kept throwing enough crumbs to everyone else to prevent another revolution. I think the kids today have moved beyond Nixon's "silent majority." They know how to scare the bejeepers out of the Old White Guys, who've run the show pretty much for 200+ years...and they can do it with one word...s o c i a l i s m...which is short for "let's cut a new deal or we'll just take everything...which do you want?"
But, why do you think Clinton armed Al Qaeda?

 

Presidential candidates are supposed to have integrity - which means not cheating - which means not using nefarious tactics to win such as getting the debate questions prior to the debate.

You are preaching to the Choir if you are trying to convince me that Trump is a scum bucket ... Your problem is that your partisan blindness does not allow you to see that your hero Hillary is also a scum bucket.

 

Biden abused his position as vice president

Which is why trump wants to know what he was doing in ukraine

 

What? Oh oh! Looks like Trump just lost a supporter...

Oh! Is that what it means? Enlisting foreign governments to illegally intervene in our elections, or conspiring to break campaign finance law... that's not cheating, then.

Yeah... debate questions. That's what it's all about.....

 

Few Republicans are defending Trump. The defense is so thin it is nearly invisible, most of it consists of mocking. Their defense goes something like this: Donald Trump never said to Zelensky, "I won't do X unless you give me Y." He never said the phrase "quid pro quo." Therefore, nothing to see here!

"Wow. Impeachment over this?," Sen. Lindsey Graham tweeted after reading the Ukraine call transcript. "What a nothing (non-quid pro quo) burger."

Asked what he would call quid pro quo, Graham said, "'Uh, hey pal, you know, you need to like, go after the Bidens or I ain't gonna give you any money,' [He'd] be really, like, thuggish about it." Graham must think Trump is really stupid.

So does Jay Sekulow, one of Trump's lawyers. "I think it's important to understand what we don't have, and what we don't have is a quid pro quo,'" said Sekulow. "In other words, 'I will do this, you do this.' That is absent." Gee, ya think. This guy is one of Trump's lawyers, and that is the best he can do?

Other questionable defensive remarks from Republicans would include it’s a “he said, she said” case (Rep. Chuck Fleischmann, Tenn.), that the whistleblower had “zero first-hand knowledge” (House Minority Whip Steve Scalise, La.) or “political bias” (Rep. Devin Nunes, Calif., and House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy, Calif.), that “these attacks are lies” (Rep. Jeff Duncan, S.C.) or, contrary to the evidence, that the real villain is Joe Biden.

Devin Nunes, the ranking Republican on the House Intelligence Committee, topped them all at Maguire's hearing. “Information warfare operation . . . Russia collusion hoax . . . hearsay . . . cabal of leakers . . . another Steele dossier . . . Russia hoax [again] . . . public spectacle . . . Fake news. . . Russia hoax [yet again] . . . Democrats doing the exact same thing . . . Joe Biden . . . Fusion GPS . . . Nude pictures of Trump . . . unhinged and dangerous . . . dishonest, grotesque . . . charade.”

The comments speak for themselves. What the White House put out this week was enough: The President broke the law when he solicited political help from Ukraine. In doing so, he put his political interests above the national interest. How can Republicans defend the indefensible?

They can't, and it shows.

 

Yup, there isn't whole lot you can say. Maybe you should re-think your priorities. You're backing a loser, and you know it.

Trump supporters on this thread never go into the specifics of the call's transcript or the whistleblower's complaint. They use various vague, outdated characterizations, pretend the call was innocent, and try desperately to change the subject, but they dare not venture into the substance of the alleged impeachment charges against Trump.

 

You cornered yourself Golem. Touche!

Report: Top Democrats Colluded with Ukrainians to Interfere with 2016 Election

https://pjmedia.com/trending/report...h-ukrainians-to-interfere-with-2016-election/

 

I havn't bothered getting into "Ukraine-gate" The Russiagate clown show has left such a sour taste in my mouth for these Establishment games. Is Trump a corrupt scum bucket .. Yup .. no argument from me on that one but, who isn't ? The whole system is a mess of corruption.

Are we going to get another scum bucket like Mueller - one with a proven track record of scum bucketry to oversee this investigation ?

Why don't you find something legitimate to complain about - like how Trump just asked congress to reauthorize the NSA spying.

Hold on .. isn't that an Obama era program - I thought Trump hated everything Obama. Apparently not. The place to find the true Establishment evil is not where the various factions disagree .. it is on where they agree.

While you and the rest are all up in arms about Stormy Daniels and other nonsense .. our nation is being sold down the garden path .. but you don't care .. because all you can think about is Stormy.. Stormy.

This is .. in all likelihood, yet another game to keep the public distracted from the real issues.

Tell you what .. Tulsi Gabbard said there is no there there .. Since this is one of the very few that has a shred of credibility .. and on the basis of my lack of desire to pay attention to this latest Stormy Affair .... I will take her word for it.

 

Easy to say... almost impossible to accomplish.

 

Good post .. we agree on much. It is not about me thinking that Obama/Hillary armed Al Qaeda. It is a proven fact.

One of the big Benghazi scandals was that arms were flowing from Libya to the Syrian Jihadists. ( this is the proper word as there were no "moderate rebels" of any significance)

If you don't believe me ... perhaps smokin Joe will do the trick.

https://mideastshuffle.com/2014/10/04/biden-turks-saudis-uae-funded-and-armed-al-nusra-and-al-qaeda/

This was a classic Biden Gaff .. he speaks the Truth but he completely contradicts Obama's "Moderate Rebel Lie".

Now that the war is pretty much over the networks are more free to report the Truth .. watch some documentary the other day where they actually talked about the weapons moving from Benghazi.

This is just the tip of the iceberg though. What Biden doesn't mention is that we were the ones facilitating the arms moving from the Saudis to Al Qaeda.

This is from the NY-Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/28/w...-create-dilemma-for-us.html?pagewanted=all&_r=

That was in 2013 .. prior to the declaration of an Islamic State (the war started in late 2011 and the Jihadists had taken over most of Syria). It was in late 2013 that various Islamist Jihadist groups coalesced into the modern incarnation of ISIS .. Then in 2014 ISIS went into Iraq. This caused a problem as we were fighting against ISIS in Iraq but on the same side in Syria - this necessitated the "Moderate Rebel Lie".

The NYT quickly forgot its previous reporting and started touting the Establishment false narrative.

Obama shipped or facilitated the shipment of tens of thousands of tons of sophisticated military equipment to Syria .. so if there were no "moderates" who then were these weapons going to ?

We can look at declassified DIA documents which state clearly that we are on the side of Al Qaeda .. or we can just look to the more recent "Stop Arming Terrorist Act" .. one which Gabbard and 13 other bipartisan cosponsors brought to the floor of the house.

https://gabbard.house.gov/news/press-releases/gabbards-stop-arming-terrorists-act-introduced-senate

The Establishment - both Red and Blue - was some upset about this - and Gabbard is soft peddling the issue.

I will stop here for now but ... I can go on and on and on.

Here is a link giving some more specific details related to the arms transfers to terrorists in Syria. .. https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/how-america-armed-terrorists-in-syria/

 

I don't support Trump ... and have written hundreds of posts slamming the guy. Since when have foreign actors not been intervening in our elections.

You just can't handle the fact that your Hero Hillary is a scum bucket - as is Trump.

 

The call is public knowledge and not at all damning for trump

Its just another attempt by the Deep State to stage a soft coup against a duly elected president

And you are tearing the nation apart in the process

 

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...kraine-in-may-demanding-it-investigate-trump/

And look here.

 

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...kraine-in-may-demanding-it-investigate-trump/

 

Democrats wrote to the Ukrainian government in May 2018 urging it to continue investigations into President Donald Trump’s alleged collusion with Russia in the 2016 presidential campaign — collusion later found not to exist.

The demand, which came from U.S. Senators Robert Menendez (D-NJ), Dick Durbin (D-IL), and Patrick Leahy (D-VT), resurfaced Wednesday in an opinion piece written by conservative Marc Thiessen in the Washington Post.

 

Gabbard just yesterday came out for impeachment

Oh...

 

Lol. I wonder why !

 

Because Trump is looking really bad here...the rats are jumping ship.

Even Tim Ryan is supporting an inquiry over on Fox

 

Never with the encouragement of a Presidential candidate. Of course, Netanyahu also intervened in our elections. And much more brazenly than Putin. But that was not in collusion with the campaign in a quid pro quo scenario.

I was a Sanders supporter. I have never liked Hillary. Had no choice but to vote for her, but she is more in the pocket of big corporate interest than Trump is. Trump is in the pocket of ... Trump. And, in consequence, of all those who can help or hurt his dirty financial interests

BTW, for somebody who doesn't support Trump, you seem very eager to change derail this thread by changing the subject. Not only is that a violation of forum rules, but you must realize how doing this kinda makes your "I'm not a Trump supporter" statement less credible

 

As misleading as the Russian collusion hoax ? Or schiff in general?

 

Link por favor,