WSJ: Trump colluding with Ukraine

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Golem, Sep 20, 2019.

  1. stone6

    stone6 Well-Known Member Donor

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    If it were a "nothing burger," the IG would have been allowed to report the whistleblower's report to Congress, per law.
     
  2. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    Ukraine wouldn't be interfering.
    Biden interfered in theirs however.
     
  3. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    We don't know because a President has never done this before. I think the WSJ has got the essential story right: Trump pressured a foreign country to investigate a political adversary.

    You think that's a nothingburger? Of course you don't. If the WSJ is right, I think Trump gets impeached. I don't know if the Senate convicts. If Trump DID threaten to revoke military aid, or even hinted in that direction (nice country you got here, would be a shame if something happened to it) then Trump is finished. Very few Senators are going to go on record being OK with that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2019
  4. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    It's not
     
  5. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    Only if you agree that if Biden threatened to withhold loan guarantees if the investigation into his son wasn't dropped than Biden is finished and rightly so.

    The fact of the matter is that no man is finished, regardless of right.
     
  6. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Read the OP
     
  7. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    I do think it is a nothing burger.
     
  8. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    I don't like Biden for reasons precisely like the above. Investigate the hell out of him and see what comes out. We don't need Ukraine to do it though.

    This is a potential train wreck of a scandal. If Trump DID use the removal of military aid to pressure a foreign country to investigate a political opponent, I (and the rest of the country), would be completely fascinated by the story, because a President who does something like that is going to be successfully impeached.

    So, as a politics junkie, I would be completely all over this story, no matter who was involved. This is potentially presidency-ending. And it came out of Left Field.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2019
  9. Belch

    Belch Well-Known Member

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    scared what that will bring?

    Ukraine is a nothing burger. Biden as VP using Ukraine to do whatever it was that got his son a 6 figure income he doesn't deserve is more important.
     
  10. Belch

    Belch Well-Known Member

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    ummm yeah, I don't think so.

    Nobody here cares about Ukraine.
     
  11. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    I need to agree on something before you can answer a question? Anyway, yeah, if Biden, in any way/shape/form used his influence to get a prosecutor fired to protect his son, he should be prosecuted, if the statute of limitations isn't up.

    Since the GOP has had control of the FBI, CIA, and DOJ for three years now, and would love nothing more than to nail someone like Biden, I doubt there's anything there. We would have heard about it by now. The video of Biden bragging about getting the prosecutor fired is old news.

    I also have trouble believing Trump would use military aid to pressure Ukraine. Surely, there would be more than one whistleblower if that happened. Wouldn't the administration just grind to a halt if word of that got out? Unless people are terrified of crossing Trump, which I can totally see. Who wants to get sued for the rest of your life and be a punching bag on Twitter?

    I don't understand this.
     
  12. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    Of course we need Ukrainian help. Biden's son was conspiring with Ukrainians. The US can't interview Ukrainians.


    But you are barely interested in Biden threatening to withhold loan guarantees to successfully pressure that same government to squelch an investigation of his son's corruption.

    Anyway, I think this will be forgotten in a week.
     
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  13. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Donor

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    It's complicated.

    Viktor Shokin had much bigger issues than the corruption case against Mykola Zlochevsky. Almost immediately after he was appointed, he started to cause almost irreparable harm to Ukraine’s legal system. For starters, he failed to prosecute any prominent members of the Yanukovych regime or anybody in the current government. He constantly blocked reform to Ukraine’s broken legal system.

    He was in charge of implementing the 2014 law on prosecution which the European Union had asked Ukraine to do for years. The law aimed to reduce to role of prosecutors who “were absurdly superior to judges in the Soviet legal system that persisted in post-Soviet Ukraine” according to Atlantic Council. It also called for a reevaluation of all prosecutors in order to weed out the more corrupt and incompetent ones. Shokin manipulated the process so that the old system mostly remained the same and minimal, ineffective changes were implemented.

    He was the largest obstacle to judicial reform in Ukraine. It wasn’t just Joe Biden calling for his ouster, it was the United States government and the European Union.

    https://heavy.com/news/2019/09/joe-biden-ukraine/

    That's the short version.
     
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  14. Belch

    Belch Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully this won't be forgotten in a week. Yes, Trump can ask Ukraine about certain questions, and if he uses funds already allocated to Ukraine by congress, I'm not seeing the problem.

    Lefties do. but they don't really matter. Their front runner is suffering heavily from senile dementia, and don't have ha chance of winning in 2020. They will just have to complain about stuff that only they care about, and in the end, they lose.
     
  15. Belch

    Belch Well-Known Member

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    Hell, I'm still wondering where the evidence for russian collusion is, as well as interference with our elections.

    Lefties are still trying to figure those out, so this is just more nonsense from the left. No evidence, no nothing.

    Just TDS.
     
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  16. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Donor

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    This isn't about Biden. This is about Trump asking a foreign government to interfere in our election on his behalf and holding up $250M to get what he wanted.
     
  17. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    That's fine. But that's not what's going on here. According to the WSJ, Trump wasn't asking Ukraine to help us with our investigation. Trump was "pressuring" (their words) Ukraine to do an investigation.

    Biden's not President. He's not even the nominee. And I have been following the New Yorker and NY Times pieces on this.

    I predict it won't be. One of us can laugh at the other next week.
     
  18. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    So what?


    No wonder you are so misinformed!


    Fair enough!
     
  19. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    Not remotely
     
  20. opion8d

    opion8d Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The story is continuing to unfold in a disturbing way. Investigations have led to a belief Trump has used a combination of threats and extortion to gain Ukraine's cooperation to help in his reelection. This is not collusion, it is conspiracy, and that is a crime. For now investigators, and increasingly the public, see a lot of smoke on the horizon So far, all we have is a situation involving "if's" and "what if's." This makes it inevitable that this investigation will continue unabated until the truth is uncovered.

    Trump, Barr, and the rest of Trump's inner circle are worried about where this will go. Trump has pulled out his old reliable, "I'll sick my lawyers on you." It's unlikely that this one will go away like a nefarious real estate deal gone bad. He has also embraced his victimhood, "these are highly partisan people." Who "these people" are is undefined, which in itself is making the Trump team doubly worried.

    Trump has been building an elaborate construct of victimhood, MSM bias, liberals, and Hillary supporters determined to undermine his presidency. Toss into that Trump's most imaginative narrative (the soft coup) and the construct looks progressively shaky. This latest Trump scheme (if true) has the potential of kicking the barn down. If this were not bad enough, the Inspector General has elevated this to a national security risk and claims there are not one, but many such instances.

    This could become very, very ugly.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2019
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  21. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    You're wasting your time.
     
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  22. Silver Surfer

    Silver Surfer Well-Known Member

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    Nonsense. The old senile fool is on record. He's taken the credit for firing the honest prosecutor who was just trying to find out what happened to 1.8 billion USD missing.

    Did Biden Save This Ukraine Firm Responsible for $1.8B in Missing Aid? His Son is on the Board...

    https://pjmedia.com/trending/did-bi...-1-8b-in-missing-aid-his-son-is-on-the-board/

    You have no leg to stand on. The old senile fool is corrupted. Rotten to the core.
     
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  23. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    You can't be serious. If Trump used military aid (taxpayer dollars!) to pressure a country to investigate a political opponent, he's finished. You don't see that?
     
  24. FlamingLib

    FlamingLib Well-Known Member

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    That was funny.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2019
  25. Marine1

    Marine1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's $250 million dollars that the Democratic Congress already approved and urged Trump to approve it.

    Why did Biden give Ukraine just 6 hours to fire the prosecutor investigating his son or he would cancell the funds?
     
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