WTC1/WTC2 perimeter columns vs. plane impact, math discussion...

Who says it's not generally available? And you think every time they rerout ducts,hang new drywall they'd put it in the 'as built' blueprints?

You're just guessing

 

You mention rerouting ducts, and really that is something that
very much needs to be documented because people have to
maintain these systems for air-conditioning & plumbing (etc... )
given that the modern skyscraper has miles of conduit, pipe,
& duct work, this is something that really needs to be documented.
also, I may have located a source for some of the blueprints,
the web-site states that all they have are plans for the North Tower,
and these may not be totally complete, but its better than nothing.
Somebody on this forum was complaining a while back that the
weight of the upper 15% of the north tower could not be accurately
known, because the original blue-prints had gone missing. This
may be a golden opportunity to get the needed data and put the
matter to rest for all time.

 

As expected, nothing.

 

From the link here:
http://911review.com/coverup/oralhistories.html


Rich Banaciski -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 22]
... and then I just remember there was just an explosion. It seemed like on television they blow up these buildings. It seemed like it was going all the way around like a belt, all these explosions.

Brian Becker -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Engine 28]
The collapse hadn't begun, but it was not a fire any more up there. It was like -- it was like that -- like smoke explosion on a tremendous scale going on up there.

Greg Brady -- E.M.T. (E.M.S.) [Battalion 6]
We were standing underneath and Captain Stone was speaking again. We heard -- I heard 3 loud explosions. I look up and the north tower is coming down now, 1 World Trade Center.

Timothy Burke -- Firefigter (F.D.N.Y.) [Engine 202]
But it seemed like I was going oh, my god, there is a secondary device because the way the building popped. I thought it was an explosion.

Ed Cachia -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Engine 53]
we originally had thought there was like an internal detonation explosives because it went in succession, boom, boom, boom, boom, and then the tower came down.

Frank Campagna -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 11]
You see three explosions and then the whole thing coming down.

Craig Carlsen -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 8]
... you just heard explosions coming from building two, the south tower. It seemed like it took forever, but there were about ten explosions.

Jason Charles -- E.M.T. (E.M.S.)
... and then I heard an explosion from up, from up above, and I froze and I was like, oh, s___, I'm dead because I thought the debris was going to hit me in the head and that was it.
...
I look over my shoulder and I says, oh, s___, and then I turned around and looked up and that's when I saw the tower coming down.

Frank Cruthers -- Chief (F.D.N.Y.) [Citywide Tour Commander]
.. there was what appeared to be at first an explosion. It appeared at the very top, simultaneously from all four sides, materials shot out horizontally. And then there seemed to be a momentary delay before you could see the beginning of the collapse.

Kevin Darnowski -- Paramedic (E.M.S.)
I heard three explosions, and then we heard like groaning and grinding, and tower two started to come down.

Dominick Derubbio -- Battalion Chief (F.D.N.Y.) [Division 8]
It was weird how it started to come down. It looked like it was a timed explosion ...

Karin Deshore -- Captain (E.M.S.)
Somewhere around the middle of the World Trade Center, there was this orange and red flash coming out. Initially it was just one flash. Then this flash just kept popping all the way around the building and that building had started to explode.

Brian Dixon -- Battalion Chief (F.D.N.Y.)
... the lowest floor of fire in the south tower actually looked like someone had planted explosives around it because the whole bottom I could see -- I could see two sides of it and the other side -- it just looked like that floor blew out. I looked up and you could actually see everything blew out on the one floor. I thought, geez, this looks like an explosion up there, it blew out.

Michael Donovan -- Captain (F.D.N.Y.)
I thought there had been an explosion or a bomb that they had blown up there.

James Drury -- Assistant Commissioner (F.D.N.Y.)
I should say that people in the street and myself included thought that the roar was so loud that the explosive - bombs were going off inside the building.

Thomas Fitzpatrick -- Deputy Commissioner for Administration (F.D.N.Y.)
Some people thought it was an explosion. I don't think I remember that. I remember seeing it, it looked like sparkling around one specific layer of the building.
...
My initial reaction was that this was exactly the way it looks when they show you those implosions on TV.

Gary Gates -- Lieutenant (F.D.N.Y.)
So the explosion, what I realized later, had to be the start of the collapse. It was the way the building appeared to blowout from both sides. I'm looking at the face of it, and all we see is the two sides of the building just blowing out and coming apart like this, as I said, like the top of a volcano.

Kevin Gorman -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 22]
... I thought that when I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before No. 2 came down, that I saw low-level flashes.

Gregg Hansson -- Lieutenant (F.D.N.Y.)
Then a large explosion took place. In my estimation that was the tower coming down, but at that time I did not know what that was. I thought some type of bomb had gone off.

Timothy Julian -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 118]
You know, and I just heard like an explosion and then cracking type of noise, and then it sounded like a freight train, rumbling and picking up speed, and I remember I looked up, and I saw it coming down.

John Malley -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 22]
I felt the rumbling, and then I felt the force coming at me. I was like, what the hell is that? In my mind it was a bomb going off.

James McKinley -- E.M.T. (E.M.S.)
After that I heard this huge explosion, I thought it was a boiler exploding or something. Next thing you know this huge cloud of smoke is coming at us, so we're running.

Joseph Meola -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Engine 91]
As we are looking up at the building, what I saw was, it looked like the building was blowing out on all four sides. We actually heard the pops. Didn't realize it was the falling -- you know, you heard the pops of the building. You thought it was just blowing out.

Kevin Murray -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 18]
When the tower started -- there was a big explosion that I heard and someone screamed that it was coming down and I looked away and I saw all the windows domino

Janice Olszewski -- Captain (E.M.S.)
I thought it was an explosion or a secondary device, a bomb, the jet -- plane exploding, whatever.

Daniel Rivera -- Paramedic (E.M.S.) [Battalion 31]
At first I thought it was -- do you ever see professional demolition where they set the charges on certain floors and then you hear "Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop"? That's exactly what -- because I thought it was that.

Angel Rivera -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.)
That's when hell came down. It was like a huge, enormous explosion. I still can hear it. Everything shook.

Kennith Rogers -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.)
I figured it was a bomb, because it looked like a synchronized deliberate kind of thing. I was there in '93.

Patrick Scaringello -- Lieutenant (E.M.S.)
I started to treat patients on my own when I heard the explosion from up above.

Mark Steffens -- Division Chief (E.M.S.)
Then there was another it sounded like an explosion and heavy white powder ...

John Sudnik -- Battalion Chief (F.D.N.Y.)
Then we heard a loud explosion or what sounded like a loud explosion and looked up and I saw tower two start coming down. Crazy.

Jay Swithers -- Captain (E.M.S.)
I took a quick glance at the building and while I didn't see it falling, I saw a large section of it blasting out, which led me to believe it was just an explosion. I thought it was a secondary device, but I knew that we had to go.

David Timothy -- E.M.T. (E.M.S.)
The next thing I knew, you started hearing more explosions. I guess this is when the second tower started coming down.

Albert Turi -- Deputy Assistant Chief (F.D.N.Y.)
And as my eyes traveled up the building, and I was looking at the south tower, somewhere about halfway up, my initial reaction was there was a secondary explosion, and the entire floor area, a ring right around the building blew out.

Thomas Turilli -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.)
... it almost actually that day sounded like bombs going off, like boom, boom, boom, like seven or eight, and then just a huge wind gust just came.

Stephen Viola -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.)
... that's when the south tower collapsed, and it sounded like a bunch of explosions.



All of these people heard explosions. Any comments?

 

Yes.

That's quite a list. Your link does not supply their full quotes, nor offer a link to said quotes. Are we to simply take the word of the site that this exactly what they said? Do you just believe whatever you read on the internet?

In other words: please link to the source of these quotes. The full quotes, not just cherry-picked sound bites.

By the way: one of your quoted people states that they heard a train coming down the building. Does that mean the buildings were destroyed by trains, now? (See:analogy)

 

Any answer genericBob?

 

Seriously? Are you insinuating that all of these witnesses are invalid? If I provide the 'full quotes', you'll do what then? Find some other reason to disregard them? Sheesh. Just go ahead and say you don't believe it and be done with it. The information isn't parsed in the manner that you would prefer so, you avoid the information you asked for, because it doesn't align with the story you want to convey.

When you decide to have an honest discussion, I'll be here.

 

If you scrolled to the bottom of the link, you'd find this:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packag...12_WTC_GRAPHIC/met_WTC_histories_full_01.html


From the link:

The Sept. 11 Records
A rich vein of city records from Sept. 11, including more than 12,000 pages of oral histories rendered in the voices of 503 firefighters, paramedics, and emergency medical technicians, were made public on Aug. 12. The New York Times has published all of them.

The oral histories of dispatch transmissions are transcribed verbatim. They have have not been edited to omit coarse language.


I await comments about any of their eyewitness statements.

 

"Sounds like explosions" does equate explosives being used just like someone stating a tornado sounded like a freight train doesn't mean a freight train destroyed their house.

 

I see, so cherry picking quotes is good enough evidence for you. They must love you at Letsroll.com

Noted. Keep doing your dance, Boss.

 

That the only one you want to comment on? There are many others.

 

LOL

No answer to myriad of witnesses and their testimony. The 'cherry picked' list of firefighters, emts, and the like must all be what. 'mistaken'? You accuse people of running away, and dodging, and then you do exactly that. Nothing except insult attempts, dodges and other distractions. Hey, you have a good day.

 

Interesting to find that out of those hundred of firefighters, ems personnel (each listed with their own separate pdf links where even further details can be investigated), nobody wants to discuss any of them, or their comments. Nobody?

 

Oh, what the hey, I'll pick one.

Dominic Derubbio- Battalion Chief (from one of the hundreds of files listed above):

This would be the north tower coming
down?
A.
This would be the first one.
Q.
Or
the south tower?
A. This one here.
It was weird how it started to come down.
It looked like it was a timed explosion, but I guess it was just the floors starting to pancake one on top of the other.



Comments?

 

Pick any of the quotes that contain "sounds like explosions or explosives".

 

I'll leave you to parse the information as you see fit. What's apparent to me, is that the interest isn't in discussing the issue, rather in only only debunking anything that doesn't 'jive' with the official propaganda. You can do that on your own.

 

Not interested in discussing them individually? Guess it doesn't fit your agenda, so away you run.

Have a nice day, Boss.

 

You asked for specific quotes to discuss, I gave you examples to choose from, and you turn tail and run?

Typical.

 

Its a dead heat.

the "sounds like explosions" can be interpreted to
meant that the individual actually heard an explosion
or it could mean that some sort of sound that was not
caused by an explosion was heard. how does anyone
know for certain?

There is a video that somebody produced
that had a bit of detective work done on it
and in the audio track + people reacting to
the sounds, its possible to discern low
frequency sounds that are probably explosions,
and the bit that is a significant piece of evidence
is the fact that the explosions are evenly timed.
Events that are set on purpose, have an order to
them, events that are the result of chaotic forces
such as fires burning in a skyscraper, do not.
therefore, events that have an order to them are
indicative of human intervention.

 

Exaclty.

Truthers who use these quotes as proof of explosives are reaching.

 

You edited out the rest of my post
I did indeed provide a foundation for understanding
that the sounds heard, were indeed explosions.

 

No,You didn't..

 

Gets down to:

Did so .....
Did NOT
Did so ...
................. etc... and infinitum, ad nausum

oh well

 

An explosive powerful enough to sever a load bearing column would not produce a low frequency sound.

 

and you know this
how?