Yeah...you keep on trying to convince us...

Here are his credentials:

How do they compare with yours?

 

You've got no argument - your only argument is something along the lines of "because fetuses show no interest in being alive", so yeah you're just begging the question - you have no argument for why "showing interest" in being alive is a valid reason not to have a right to life.

 

Yes, I do have an argument, I have already made it a thousand times. Go to the debate section, click the abortion thread and read an explanation of it there. LOL You're such a presumptive fool.

 

One thing you learn quite quickly when becoming a parent is that selfishness tends to take a back seat in your priorities. You now have a living, breathing human being that you are completely in charge of and to take care of in order for the baby to live. You have to sacrifice a lot when becoming a parent, there is no doubt about that. Call it what you will, but abortion is a selfish act. Ultimately, you are deciding to kill what will become a living human being because it wasn't planned. I'm not going to sit here and act like I'm on a high horse and tell people what they should or shouldn't do. The fact is, abortion is legal and I don't think that is going to change anytime soon. People have to live with the decisions they make and their decision is not mine to make for them. Obviously the situations vary, potential father being involved, one night stand, potential father wants/doesn't want the baby, age, all of that weighs into the decision. However, I can guarantee most women that go on to have children later in life that have had a previous abortion are going to regret it. It will hang over their head forever. I'm a man, and I agree, men have less sway in the decision, because ultimately it is the woman's decision to make. A man that has no children and doesn't plan on having children (i.e. Megadethfan) has almost no sway whatsoever, especially when trying to argue against a woman that has had a previous abortion. To me, it's a clear cut situation when you look just at the end result, either there is a living baby or there is no baby. This baby doesn't just disappear, its a decision.

 

Ok... so what? The whole act of becoming a parent is considered by some, to which I would say is often the case, is an entirely selfish act. You dont have a kid to "give them the joys of life" - most people have children because THEY want to raise children for the joy THEY (and their kid, of course) will experience. No, parenting is hardly an altruistic arrangement, more like a mutualist one. The western tradition shows it has been historically egoistic, not just selfish. So I dont see the validity of your point here.

Nonsense. Unless you can read minds, and have read all the minds of woman who have had abortions (not to mention then turned around and trumped all studies and polling) this point about "guaranteeing" guilt is complete garbage.

I must admit, at 20 I do not plan on having children.

Whether someone like churchmouse has had an abortion or not has ABSOLUTELY NO bearing on the validity of her claims - whether pro-life or pro-choice. The reason why churchmouse wont change her views is because they are religious, and she is too emotionally and psychologically invested in the issue to actually look at it rationally let alone considerately.

Yes, but again, what is the problem here? Your entire premise is flawed. Do you not realize having an abortion can be as much an altruistic act as a self-interested one (not to mention the fact you never showed why acting self-interestedly is necessarily bad)? Parents might not want to have kids because they cant give them a good life; they feel they cant live up to the requirements, or are not ready, or the social conditions are too poor - war, social repression, persecution, etc etc.

Your post, for all its sincerity, is myopic and ignorant.

 

First, I didn't say all women that had an abortion, I said most women that had an abortion and go on to have children in the future. The key here being they have children in the future. When you have a child, everything changes. If they don't regret it, well I don't get it then. People try and rationalize everything they can to make themselves accept what has happened. That's a fact of psychology. You can rationalize all you want to make yourself feel better, i.e. it wasn't the right time, I couldn't afford the child, I couldn't provide for the child, etc. The fact of the matter is that decision means there is no child. Again, abortion is legal and I support law. I have no desire to make it illegal. After all it is a choice, and a choice you have to live with for the rest of your life. Better you than me. I do however believe that not a single tax dollar should go to supporting this decision. After all, its all about women's rights, right? Then she has the right to come up with the money all by herself.

 

Another groundless and opinionated assertion.

Another subjective opinion.

That's because you are operating from entirely within your personal perceptions and judgments with little consideration of the person having an abortion.

Yes but there is absolutely NOTHING wrong in having an abortion. Your claim that it is selfish is opinionated nonsense - quite inconsiderate and offensive I might add.

I disagree. I see no problem in someone who has an abortion receiving assistance and merely pay more tax, or repay the government some other way in the future.

 

Do you not realize that these women who have abortions also pay taxes? So it is also there money too. I love it when people behave like all taxes only come from their own pocket and therefore they get to say what happens to the money. Sorry but it doesn't work that way.

And the only taxes that go to abortion are under very specific circumstances anyways under the Hyde amendment. You'd have to be exceptionally cruel to force a woman to endure a pregnancy under these particular circumstances; rape/incest, immediate danger to maternal health or life, or fatal abnormalities in the fetus.

 

How do you explain the women having abortions when they already have a child? The majority of them do.

 

Maybe they like you think abortion is wonderful solution to their problems. I had my abortion before I had my children…does not matter. Abortion is an absolute…it is killing…and that decision can never be overturned. And like other decisions it remains with you forever. One can't take the words that come out of our mouths back….and no woman can take abortion back.

 

If you went to a hospital and went into a nursery..and the nurse told you that one of the twenty babies mothers were raped…do you think you could pick that baby out? How is this life less than all the others? Rape is a violent act, yes…but so is abortion. Two wrongs never make a right.So the woman who was raped will remember not only the rape…but the abortion she had.

 

Drago said,

Well said…and so true. We try to rationalize, hide, forget…but it never goes away…never. Abortion is killing a living human child and I believe most women regret their abortions. I did…but years later. You don't hear about it because what woman want to talk about it…that would be admitting something that she knows in her heart was immoral. Abortion is one of the most performed surgeries in the country. The pro-abort side says its safe and easy…and well…a way of life for woman who want control over their lives and others. It is a way to solve problems. Howver the ones saying this…are the ones who have not had one. What do they know? Nothing in comparison to someone who has had one. No book knowledge can tell you the feelings and what you cope with after…an abortion. Planned Parenthood…gives you a number to call for counseling. Why does a woman need counseling after she kills her unborn? LOL

Yea….right.




Again, abortion is legal and I support law. I have no desire to make it illegal. After all it is a choice, and a choice you have to live with for the rest of your life. Better you than me. I do however believe that not a single tax dollar should go to supporting this decision. After all, its all about women's rights, right? Then she has the right to come up with the money all by herself.[/QUOTE]

 

Haha, if only you could open the eyes of some of your fellow lifers here who make a rape exception.

 

WEll ya avoided the question….LMAO

Could you or could you not pick out the baby whose mother had been raped?

yes or no

This is about YOU ANSWERING THE QUESTION….SO WHAT IS IT……..? LOL

 

No.

But abortion isn't about neonates now is it?

 

We are talking about life….period.

I am saying that it does not matter if the woman was raped or not…it was not the fault of the unborn. The rape baby has just as much right to live as a baby whose mother was not raped.

So let me reword this…if you went into a hospital and a nurse told you to go down the hall and talk to the women who were in labor….and pick out the one who had been raped…could you do it?

Of course you could not. So why should rape be an exception to abortion? And I would argue this with anyone who claimed to be pro-life and wanted abortion an option for rape.

If you went into a hospital

 

Good. You should continue to enforce such consistency on lifers and also continue to prove just how malicious lifers really are. Forcing raped women and girls to endure their forced pregnancies? That is pure evil.

 

You talk about being malicious…wow. You who condone abortion who want no protection for the unborn…and you think pro-lifers are malicious?…LOL

Those like you who relish the power women have on unborn children….what are you? I can't say it on here…not what I would like to say. Your position is cold, callous, insensitive, grotesque, sadistic, immoral, sick, disgusting, vile….need I say more.

 

Interesting I feel the exact same way about your position. So I guess that's the one thing we can agree on! ROFL!

 

Your position is based on killing human beings…the big difference.

 

My position is on allowing women to freely make their own reproductive choices without the interference of crazy people. Big difference.

 

As I said…your position is about killing living human babies…..if that is not immoral…then I don't know what is. God only knows what you do in your private life or what else you condone. I can only imagine.

 

Why are worrying and or imagining about what I do in my private life? That's really (*)(*)(*)(*)ing creepy.

 

BEcause of your stance here….one only can imagine what else you condone. And yes…that in itself is creepy.

 

Look, you didn't even answer the question!