Discussion in 'Asia' started by HumbledPi, Nov 2, 2018.
Oh sure, because it's Iran's business.
Kashoggi is not citizen.
It seems you don't understand what the word 'literally' means. If there is a 'reign of death' coming from the Wahhabi kingdom, blame the Wahhabis. Can you do that?
I never said I wanted democracies to step in ? I completely agree that we should "stay clear" - especially when it comes to regime change in these nations.
In Libya we succeeded in turning that nation into a Jihadist wonderland
In Afghanistan we did the same - with the same result
In Iraq we did the same - with the same result
In Syria we did the same - with the same result
My point was that we should not be aiding and supporting Saudi Arabia in Yemen .. but we are and thus partly responsible for the horrible situation that exists.
We are not just arming the Saudi's - If that were the case I would tend to agree with you but, its not. We are involved in that conflict and have chosen sides - with (as usual - as was the case in Syria and Libya) the Wahhabi's.
Are you aware of your countries military sales to the Kingdom or that you are directly supplying reconnaisance and intelligence to the Sauidi bombing campaign?
Do you under stand your own countries support for Saudi funded terrorist groups in Syria such as al Nusra and others who are al qaeda off-shoots that bring death and destruction but which you supported for regime chance to try to bring down Assad?
If you are not aware of these things I understand your reply but I think you would want to know if the information was available.
As much a knife merchant is responsible for a thug killing someone with his knife, a car company responsible because people use cars intentionnaly or unintentionnaly for killing people, a wine merchant responsible for the drinking problems of a few of their clients. Not really, it's a flawed logic.
Yes, in a dream world, you could stop to have diplomatic relationships with every disgusting nation which exist. Everybody is disgusted by the saudis or the pakistanis, a lot of people dislike the ways of chinese government, but in the end you still have to deal with them because they're still living in the same planet than you. You can't act the Bush way and just attack the countries you don't like.
And in the end, what's happening in Syria or Yemen is an arabic problem, and arabic people have their own way to think that a westerner will never be able to understand except for a few scholars.
Anyway, sunnis and shias muslims are killing each other for 1300 years. It's not like they will stop now.
Arabic people are not children. They're smart enough to take decisions by themselves and assume the consequence. The USA or any western country has no reason or the role of overseeing the rest of the world. I totally know you're not racist, but this way that the western world has to says they're responsible for every situation in the world seems to me like a superiority complex. Colored people are responsible too, and the USA are not responsible of their own act. When jihadis decide to bomb people or kill people, that's not the responsibility of the USA, it's the one of the jihadis.
But I agree that the less our politician will intervene, the best it will be, however considering the nature of the average politician, plotting for their own interest is their second nature and they will always try to meddle in the business of other countries, against the interest of those country and the interest of their own country, just for the interest of some oligarchs.
No idea why you would even mention racism but glad you do not think that of me.
The situations I cited were one's in which the US had direct responsibility. It is absurd to go into a nation (such as Iraq) replace the leadership and Gov't structure (to the opposite side of a blood feud) - bomb the heck out of the place - and then turn around and claim no responsibility for the place turning into a Jihadist wonderland.
In Syria - the US (in conjunction with Saud, Turkey and others) armed and supported Al Qaeda, ISIS and other Islamist Jihadist rebels with tens of thousands of tons of sophisticated weapons. There is a reason why arming an insurgency in a sovereign nation is a violation of international law.
I any case - this action led to the worst humanitarian crisis so far this decade (500,000 dead and counting), the refugee crisis and the rise of the modern incarnation of ISIS.
I share your view of Iraq. For Syria, unfortunately, it's show how our western governments got out of controle. As far as I know my country got involved too, and as far as I know 90 % of people don't even know, and 95 % of them would disapprove too.
However, for Yemen, it's another case.
Shia and sunni muslims are killing each other 1300 years. The US didn't started that war and as far everybody is disgusted with saudi arabia, we still have to deal with them.
@Giftedone About racism, there is a common idea among white people that a coloured (wo)man is never truly responsible of their acts and a white is always responsible for a colored man. That kind of racist think that the acts of colored people can be controled, for instance, they see colored people only as reactive. If they act mean, it must be because white people wasn't nice enough to them, not because they took bad decisions. It's a way of thinking I don't like by the way.
It may be time to post some credible links to support your allegations.
I agree that Yemen is different - that said, we are still involved in that one more than we should be.
Absurd way of thinking if you ask me. Xenophobia and Racism is far more prevalent in other cultures (Chinese, India and so on) than among white folks in the US ... like by a factor of 5.
What you speak of is Political correctness on steroids ... and I dislike PC to begin with.
Unfortunatly, it's the nature of politician to plot for their own interests and the interests of their friends. If we could find a way to keep politician in controle, I would gladly learn about it.
It's hard to says if american are responsible of that. Their government yes, their politician yes. But the average people as so much to care inf their daily life and the actual role of our governments in that kind of conflicts is very hard to understand even if you follow the news.
A part of political correctness is racism. Unassumed racism, but still racism.
Absolutely the Politicians and not the People. Most in the US do not even realize their Gov't has been involved in the war in Yemen as this is not something that is discussed in any detail in the mainstream media.
It's quite sad and part of an evil I doubt we will find a solution on it right now. Maybe later, who know ? But currently, there is no solutions for this evil.
People dying in wars, who'd a thunk it. Collateral damage too, gee that has to be rare. As long as the West is reliant on fossil fuels we will have an interest in this area of the world. There is no way the US wants this strife to reach Saudi Arabia's oil fields. Wars in this region always have lots of civilian casualties. The fighters hide among the civilians. The fighters use the civilians as shields. The fighters use the cities as their bases. Any time you do that you are painting a bulls eye on the civilian populace. In addition, Muslims have little compassion for human life. In their religion, killing of civilians is acceptable. Brutal tribal wars have existed in this region since the beginning of history. Often whoever controls a region will intercept any humanitarian relief and distribute it among it's allies and troops or leave it to rot. It is just another tool of war for them. The closest this region has ever come to peace is when they were occupied by the Roman or the British.
There is noting the US or anyone else can do to stop the hate and wars between the different Muslim sects. The best thing we can do is protect our interest by supplying arms to nations that produce the fuels we use.
"Since 2015, the United States has provided intelligence, military advice, and logistical support to the Saudi Arabia–led military intervention in Yemen. U.S. stated goals for this assistance are to restore the UN-recognized government of Yemen and preserve Saudi territorial integrity from incursion by Yemen-based Houthi rebels. Deepening Iranian support for the Houthi rebels has also reinforced U.S. concern for Yemen’s trajectory.
However, the Saudi-led coalition’s operations in Yemen have led to civilian casualties and collateral damage prompting concerns from the international humanitarian community and U.S. Congress. These concerns highlight how the unintended effects of the coalition’s operations have exacerbated the terrible conditions of Yemen’s civil war, characterized as the “worst humanitarian disaster” in nearly 50 years. Recent congressional and administration debate surrounding U.S. support for the Saudi-led coalition in Yemen has raised important questions and implications about how the United States increasingly relies on partners to achieve common security objectives in complex operating environments."
"Three-term Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard of Hawaii, a member of both the Armed Services and Foreign Affairs committees, has proposed legislation that would prohibit any U.S. assistance to terrorist organizations in Syria as well as to any organization working directly with them. Equally important, it would prohibit U.S. military sales and other forms of military cooperation with other countries that provide arms or financing to those terrorists and their collaborators.
Gabbard’s “Stop Arming Terrorists Act” challenges for the first time in Congress a U.S. policy toward the conflict in the Syrian civil war that should have set off alarm bells long ago: in 2012-13 the Obama administration helped its Sunni allies Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Qatar provide arms to Syrian and non-Syrian armed groups to force President Bashar al-Assad out of power. And in 2013 the administration began to provide arms to what the CIA judged to be “relatively moderate” anti-Assad groups—meaning they incorporated various degrees of Islamic extremism.
That policy, ostensibly aimed at helping replace the Assad regime with a more democratic alternative, has actually helped build up al Qaeda’s Syrian franchise al Nusra Front into the dominant threat to Assad.
The supporters of this arms-supply policy believe it is necessary as pushback against Iranian influence in Syria. But that argument skirts the real issue raised by the policy’s history. The Obama administration’s Syria policy effectively sold out the U.S. interest that was supposed to be the touchstone of the “Global War on Terrorism”—the eradication of al Qaeda and its terrorist affiliates. The United States has instead subordinated that U.S. interest in counter-terrorism to the interests of its Sunni allies. In doing so it has helped create a new terrorist threat in the heart of the Middle East."
Should keep you going for a little while......
Wrong!!! Your nation is flooding the ME with high tech weapons of death in order to support it's allies, two of the most blood-thirsty and repressive, regimes in the world. You have taken sides with a brutal, medieval, dictatorial religious autocracy who as a matter of course executes and beheads dissidents and criminals in public squares and floods the ME with armed Wahhabi Jihadists who want to spread their own extreme version of Sunni around the Arab world. You are supporting them for the sole reason that they control so much of the regions wealth and keep your armament industry in the form of the Raytheons, Lockheed Martin, Boeing and General Dynamics of your industrial warfare economy flush with cash. Don't forget that SA was the first place Trump went so he could sully up to the Sultans.
Your one-sided alliances with these types of regimes to the point of blocking and protecting them in the UN are destabilizing the entire world and your flooding the region with industrial weapons of death is making the place a hell on Earth. And this is saying nothing of your illegal wars of aggression, both overt and covert around the world since the 50's, lately, since war on terror, against sovereign states from Iraq to Syria to Libya and now the cherry on the pie, Iran.
And make no mistake, your illegal sanctions on Iran which no other country but you and Israel and SA support are a declaration of economic war!!!! The same indiscriminate economic war you have declared on faux enemies like Russia and China but also on your closest allies like Canada and the EU.
And now you are sleepwalking as you leaders lead you into yet another illegal and unnecessary war of aggression against Iran. A war which will benefit no American but which your allies who pay the bills are chomping at the bit for. Nevermind that Iran has never attacked anyone and was in compliance with the nuclear treaty.
And you are probably going to get it because your allies dangle a little gold in front of your political elites and they dance whatever dance the tail wants the dog to jiggle.
And now your idiot warmonger, security adviser is making more threats of sanctions and war in Central and South America.
It is you!!!! You are the problem. And if you don't stop bullying and threatening and killing people, one day the same thing is going to happen to you as happened to Rome when it started barfing up deranged con-men to distract the people from what was happening to them. People around the world, even the dispossessed in your own nation who are forgotten in your rush to destroy and plunder the planet, are so sick of America's thinking they have the right to tell everyone else what to do......
News flash for you dude. Sunnis and Sikhs were killing each other for hundreds of years before the Unites States was even a country. Iran is a sh*t hole and the biggest exporter of terrorism in the world. They treat their dogs better than their women and kill their own citizens wholesale. Nuking them out of existence would be the biggest gift the US could give the world. But they won't because the US is a tolerant and peace loving country. You mention Qaddafi and Libya. Another news flash for you. Once you start targeting air liners you lose your good neighbor status. And Iraq, ask Kuwait what wonderful neighbors they were. Just two mad dogs that chose the wrong country to mess with.
There is no wars on Canada or EU. The US has sheltered them from their enemies for decades and boosted their economies making them strong. Now the US has decided it is time to wean them off the freebee tit and treat them as equal partners. As for Russia and China, both ;have shown what they would do if unchecked. The rest of the world should thank the lord that they have the US to protect them
You mean Mecca who is starving these civilians, with the military aid provided by the United States.
Sikhs got nothing to do with it. You really know nothing. lol
And it's the US who is the biggest exporter of terrorism in the world. THEY are making money with starving these Yemen civilians to death! This is all part of Making America Great Again, under Trump. Congrats on that.
In this case the US is intentionally making money knowing their equipment is used to starve civilians to death.
With your line of thinking, you wouldn't have a problem selling Iran crap for billions so they can make atomic bombs.
Past tense, Dude. Kashoggi was not a citizen.
On 9-11 I saw thousands of Muslims cheering in the streets and thousands of innocent Americans burned alive. Now you expect me to feel bad about a Muslim dying? You can save your guilt trip. They are getting what they deserve.
And so ? The US is making money on a horrible reality, yes (even if I doubt that the average US citizen would see the benefit of this money). But what does it change that it's the US who sell the weapon or another ?
Atomic bombs is another matter and there is international treaties about the proliferation of nuclear weapons and outlawing the trade of such material. If the fact that the US would stop those horrors to happen, it would be absolute reasonable to ask the US to stop those weapons, but we absolutly know that's not the case and if the US stop to sell weapons, Saudi would simply buy those weapons to someone else.
Separate names with a comma.