Yet more lies + war mongering from the usual suspects..

Being fair, they didn't "know" due to their own ignorance. Does a citizenry care when its own military conquers? As awful as I feel about the Afghani villages and the Pakistani villages, as an example, I'm more concerned about the geopolitical costs of our actions rather than the loss of life. Does that make me heartless? I'd argue no, some would argue yes, meh, it is what it is.

In the Jewish-Palestinian issue, you have people such as Melanie who frankly either believe their own version of "history", or "don't care" or "silently" approve of it. After all, the Settlers get land and territory that they self-proclaimed interest in since the millenias. What do they care if Palestinians are kicked out of their homes? Or beaten and raped?

The problem we have, in not making headway on this issue is that we treat the issue as "special" and indeed, this "specialness" even if it were framed in a faulty manner keeps us from resolving it. There's nothing "special" about these crimes. Genghis Khan committed the same acts. As did Alexander The Great.

The Jewish are nothing more or less than conquerors on foreign territory, and in the modern world we deem that to be a criminal act.
Their "ignorance" is by choice, and they're not the first nor will they be the last citizenry of a conqueror to give a damn lol.

 

Since I don't have the next month or so to detail your level of ignorance, I shall merely refer to your previous posts as many of them clearly demonstrate both the breadth and depth of said ignorance.

You clearly do not have a grasp on the history of the conflict, nor realpolitik and your geo-political analysis is excellent for primary school.

What isn't a cult? What manipulation? what contrived notion?
What if Iran actually builds nukes?
And since no other nuke nation apart from the US has used their nukes, what makes you think Isarel will be the first country to do so? Oh, never mind I already know the answer.

You confuse UNGA resolutions with law. You confuse failure to sign a treaty as not following the law. You confuse military occupation with illegality.

In reference to your question of ignorance, it also appears as tho you are not aware of the substantive body of international laws that the US does not recognize. It seems the double standard is alive and well in bigotsville.

 

Surely you share my outrage that jews behave exactly like other human beings and some even hate with exactly the same vitriolic ignorant intransigence as jew haters. this woman clearly being one of "those" jews.

Still got that stuck in your teeth? Must be driving you mad that a former director of AIPAC could be in command of actual facts.

http://praemon.org/annual-threat-report-2013/the-u-s-israel-alliance-more-than-friends-by-will-snider/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/post/michael-oren-makes-the-case-for-the-us-israel-alliance/2011/03/29/AFNWYXqE_blog.html

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33476.pdf

 

We'll cross that bridge when we get there , until we get there, these sanctions are not only excessive but unproductive towards real, actual diplomacy.

If Israel is concerned about these things, perhaps for the first time they should negotiate of their own free will. Something tells me that either A: All hell will break loose or B: A deal will finally be cut.

Either way, the problem's out of our hair.

And do you know how intolerable that answer is? Even more insulting BTW that Melanie seems to think that those of us in the West are "brainwashed" by a bunch of Muslims. Do tell, is this the Jewish belief as a whole? Do you believe we rally against these INTL. Violations and generally disappointing behavior on the account of the Muslims urging us on?

Actually, no. I imagine for most American Sympathizers, the answer comes from our own history regarding two things: The Indian-American war and the subjugation of the Africans. We know first hand what it means to be the victor over the victimized and how to brutally oppress, rape and enslave them. We also know what it means to offer compromises.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/26/politics/american-indian-settlment/index.html

If we can protect Native Americanism, while creating the European-American State, then surely the Israelis can do the same for the Palestinians. Instead, they see themselves as the religious "chosen ones" and engage in a manner unbecoming of the Western/Humanized Worlds.

Those aren't confusions, those are statements of fact . Thanks for agreeing with me, perhaps you're the one with geopolitical and historical confusion.

It's publically stated that these are only "recommendations", but if these recommendations hold no weight then I humbly suggest to the UNGA that it eliminate its own existence as an absolutely useless means of INTL. Law. Law simply must be enforced, if it cannot be enforced then it cannot uphold itself as a "legal" anything. It degrades the U.N, its meaning and historical importance.

If I confuse signing a treaty as not following the law, then President Obama made that same "confusion" regarding Syria. And the entire world condemns the occupation, so apparently I'm not the only one confused.

And yet you proceed not to offer a single one of these laws. But I will say this: Our American homeland isn't governed by foreigners, we seek not to be governed by anything other than an American. Now or in the future.

 

What if a Mars build a special laser?

Can we take this risk?

They may use it to attack Israel.

 

She is a British citizen, she does not speak Hebrew, but her loyalty is not with Britain, her loyalty is with Israel.

Why?

Has this something to do with her religion?

Or has this something to do with "racial loyalty"?

A "German" guy, who was a mentor of Karl Marx and who wrote his books about the "struggle of races" before Hitler was born, predicted, that "the Germanic race" will be destroyed.

Why did the mentor of Karl Marx talk about "race struggle", while his student Marx was talking about "class struggle"?

Well, the English translation is wrong. Moses Hess talks about the "Germanic race", not the "German race".

Here is the original Text in German:

If he would talk about the German race, then in the German text he would use the term "deutsche Race (Rasse)".

What did they mean with "Germanic race"?

Well, that are people who speak Germanic languages, like Germans, Scandinavians, Dutch, Anglo-Saxons, etc.

If you read the original text in German, you will find out that Mosess Hess explicitly mentions Germans and Germanic races.

Anglo-Saxons and Germans killed each others in the "unnecessary war", and destroyed their own race.

The Germanic race really destroyed itself, thanks to guys like Moses Hess and his followers.

 

Yup.

She is another very angry, clearly deranged, Israeli first Jew.

What else is she if NOT that.

Any normal person listening to her entire rant, all of it, would probably suggest she not be out of place in a mental unit or something.

And even when like NO ONE agreed with her, and when like EVERYONE made their feelings known, did she retract, did she relent somewhat?

Nope.

As per usual and true to form, she digs her heels in even more, becomes more aggressive, more enraged, and more demented.

By the end of it, I expected a doctor to walk on and give her a shot of lithium.

 

Tell that to the EU and UN while you are updating the president et.al. on what real actual diplomacy is.

negotiate what with who?

Accurate but intolerable. Exactly how intoleralble.

p

The woman is a bigot against muslims and rails in the same fashion about muslims as jew haters do about Israel. Are you surprised that jews can hate as stupidly as non-jews?

Oh lookee. It only took a 160 years or so and after all that pain and heartache it costs the government a pittance. Yep that sure is the spirit of compromise.

protect the native americans? what blather.
It was genocide and ethnic cleansing in the extreme on a scale that makes the Israelis look like choirboys.
Yes, survival behaviour is truly unbecoming. As unbecoming as the behaviour of the coalitions in invading Afghanistan, Iraq, or bombing the crap out of Libya or Kosovo. You got a really twisted perspective of what constitutes what kind of behaviour is unbecoming in the Western/Humanized Worlds.

[/qutoe]Those aren't confusions, those are statements of fact . Thanks for agreeing with me, perhaps you're the one with geopolitical and historical confusion. [/quote]

It seems you really don't understand the differences. Oh well take solace in the fact that knowledge often accretes with age.

got it in one. Any "law" that cannot be enforced isn't a law its a guideline. I think you believe that the UN has more power than it actually does. Although, the UNSC resolutions are supposed to have the weight of law.

I don't understand your reference to Obama and Syria.
I said that FAILURE to sign a treaty is not breaking any laws.
And the military occupation of palestinian territory is NOT illegal. That it is oppressive, humiliating and brutal is not really debatable, but that is a far cry from it being illegal.
Condemnation of something does not render that something illegal.

ANTIBALLISTIC MISSILE TREATY (withdrew in 2001),
COMPREHENSIVE TEST-BAN TREATY,
CONVENTION ON DISCRIMINATION AGAINST WOMEN (CEDAW),
INTERNATIONAL COVENANT ON ECONOMIC, SOCIAL, AND CULTURAL RIGHTS (CESCR),
BIOLOGICAL AND TOXIN WEAPONS CONVENTION (BWC) AND DRAFT PROPOSAL,
CHEMICAL WEAPONS CONVENTION,
MINE BAN TREATY,
ROME STATUTE OF THE INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT (ICC),
UNITED NATIONS CONVENTION ON THE LAW OF THE SEA (UNCLOS),

All the above have either been signed and not ratified, or ratified but gutted by presidential decree, or not signed.

http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=library&page=kurtz_28_3

And yet you are not willing to accord the same "right" to Israel. Isn't that how you spell hypocrite?

Like I said, knowledge accretes with age, don't despair.

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I recommend you be appointed ambassador to mars to negotiate a peace treaty. Take the next spaceliner.

 

racial loyalty? amongst jews? that's like saying christians are a race.

And an italian guy with a funny hat decreed that the earth was the center of the universe. Outmoded social concepts are hardly fodder for debate in the 21st century.

what a crock.

there is no germanic race, never was and never will be.
But I am sure you can find some goosesteppers that think otherwise.

 

I best get there before Jewry does.

They will plant a sheckle, find it, and claim Mars "has always been their home", and that "god promisssst".

And if there was peaceful and decent life there, it would end up like Avatar.

 

Well, I agree with you, Jews are not a race, they are just a religion group, like Muslims or Christians.
It is idiotic to talk about Jews "returning" to Israel, because most Jews are converts that converted to Judaism in the Middle Ages.
Ashkenazi are a mixture of Slavs and Khazars that converted to Judaism in the 10th century AD.

But Moses Hess believed that Jews are a race, and his followers believed that Moses Hess was a great man, and that is the only thing that counts.

As we see, the Protozionist Moses Hess was a racist that believed in the existence of the Jewish and Germanic races, and in the race struggle, and his followers believed the same.

Yes, but Zionists still believe in this concept, and act according to this concept.
Even Netanyahu talked about the "Jewish race".

Well, Moses Hess and his followers believe in the existence of the Germanic race, and they were eager to destroy the Germanic states (UK, Germany), and they achieved their goal.

That is the only thing that matters.
If Englishmen and German belong to the Germanic race, is irrelevant, dude.

 

No, it is not idiotic to talk about Jews returning to Israel. If you are a christian, its in your bible. If you aren't, then its quite valid for jews to make aliyah to the only jewish nation on the planet.
Fact is, that whatever argument about origin of jews or whether they have a right to "return" is completely moot at this stage. Israel is a fact.

Again you wish to somehow apply an outmoded 19th century perspective to the 21st century.

BFD. So? Science has proven him completely wrong.


[qutoe] Yes, but Zionists still believe in this concept, and act according to this concept.
Even Netanyahu talked about the "Jewish race". [/quote]

Yes but? exactly what evidence do you have that zionists believe in Hess's antiquated perspective?

When exactly did Netanyahu claim that jews were a race?

Hess's followers are all dead. He died in 1875.

there is no such thing as a Germanic race. A little guy with a mustache thought there was, but he was insane.

 

So.

Where is the evidence of his claim?

Answer = there is none.

Why? Lying.

Period.

 

You equated the Jews with the Arayan Brotherhood who seek. death for non-whites. That is religious bigotry. But seriously, try the Mike Malloy show, he loves words like "negro," wet-back",(a New Mexico station carries him, how do you think that makes the Latin Americans feel?) "queer" and "jew". Hes a complete bigot. Has to scoff at Muslims too for a scapegoat to feel superior.

Mike Malloy just had a fundraiser and got $72,000.

I guess HATE DOES SELL


What was that rambling mess?

Not a history lesson, I gather.




___

 

Doing a search of how many times you have used the number "109" proves that in fact you DO care about people long dead from long ago. SPOILER ALERT: You've mentioned the number of times Jews have been given the boot - well, the search engine goes up to at least four pages of results.

 

You entirely missed my point, but I can't even be bothered trying to explain.

I've tried before with ya man, it is pointless.

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Iran’s nuclear warheads could hit NY in 3 to 4 years – Netanyahu to UN

 

And I keep trying with you, but I keep hoping one day it'll stick.

You can't dismiss the thousands of years Organized Christianity has treated the Jews like dirt as history long gone while at the same time remembering all the times the Jews have been given the boot from many of those same countries over pretty much the same stretch of years. You're trying to have your cake and eat it too, so to speak.

 

Yeah.

Let's short circuit it.

It was all everyone else's fault.

Just not Jews.

Over and over and over.

As we can clearly see today the Jews are innocent put upon victims.

Happy?

 

If you are a small minority living among a much larger fairly intolerant religious group you are taking a risk. If you are a small minority practicing a different religion living among such a larger group you are taking an even bigger risk. If you are a small minority practicing a different religion with historical negative connotations to the much larger religious group you are taking a much bigger risk to your group. If you are such a small minority and you also insist on an overall higher level of education and cleanliness and taking jobs that make you potential scapegoats (rent collectors, loan sharks, lenders of money to princes) you are virtually guaranteeing trouble from the much larger religious group from time to time.

So is that the fault of the Christians or the Jews or both? In a perfect world it would be the fault of the Christians for giving in to their prejudices and in the world of JN the Jews deliberately set out to "get" the Christians and the Jews got what they deserved. My view, which is that given the nature of the two groups what happened was virtually guaranteed to happen, is that if you need to assign "blame" (which I think is pointless) you should assign it to both the Christians and the Jews.

 

Evidently this is not always true.

 

Really? Name me a historical example where this was not the case, JN. Note the parameters of; much larger, fairly intolerant, religious, for the group you're going to use as an example.

 

Define intolerant?

And larger?

 

Now you are just ducking and dodging, JN. Let's be conservative and say at least ten times as many as the minority in question (Christians in Europe outnumbered the Jews by at least that much) for "larger" and a history of not tolerating religious divergence even within their own religion (much less people outside their religion) for "intolerant". So there are the parameters: where is your example, JN?

 

Like many others on PF this person is a persistent Jew basher par excellence, there are Jew haters all over the world for reasons of their own and, no one can analyse these reasons... Jews are exactly like anyone else on this planet, there are thieves and murderers between us, we are a state and we have our own judiciary, our own police and our own prisons.
President Peres just mentioned the other day that the murderer of Rabin will never be pardoned... gives everyone an idea that Israel purges its own.

The malevolent part of this discussion is that the Muslim are keeping a 1400 year old grudge against the Jews, from the time Mohammad, because the Jews refused to change their religion and follow his NEW RELIGION is unheard of, taking into account the blasphemes and demonization of the Jews in the Qur'an from the Seventh Century AD today.

 

18 Revisionist tactics

Tactic # 7. The "What's It Mean?" Spiral of Infinity -- Try to keep your opponents off balance by constantly shifting or questioning the definitions of words. For example, if your opponent states that historians generally agree that 1 million Jews were killed in gas chambers at Auschwitz during the Holocaust, you can ask, what do you mean by "historian" or what do you mean by "Jew" or what do you mean by "agree?" Alternatively, when confronted with the evidence that Himmler called for the "ausrotten" of the Jews, argue that ausrotten doesn't really mean extermination. When proof of that definition is provided by German dictionaries and German speakers on the newsgroup, just ignore it.