You can't say you were never told the truth about Healthcare in America

Discussion in 'Health Care' started by LafayetteBis, Sep 9, 2021.

  1. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What America needs today is what Europe has had for the past-fifty years! A National Healthcare System that is available to all citizens. As employed elsewhere, one that will give Americans a 3/4 year advantage in lifespan beyond that of today.

    Wakey, wakey America! You are being had-bad by the present privatized healthcare system that covers most health-insurance in the US. From here 'World Health Organization, "List of countries by life expectancy" - the US is in 40th place ..... !

    From the NCBI (National Center for Biotechnology Information): COVID-19 and Private Health: Market and Governance Failure

    Excerpt Abstract:

    The richest country in the world fails badly when it comes to adequate Healthcare Coverage (particularly during a national epidemic) for ALL its citizens. It's high time we caught up with the rest of the developed world (namely the European Union, the most similar to the US) in the provenance of a decent healthcare coverage nationally. To all and sundry regardless of colour, age or financial circumstance! It's NOW that America should adopt a universal National Healthcare System ... !
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2021
    Kris P. Bacon likes this.
  2. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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  3. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So long as 'Universal' = Mandatory, hell no. My healthcare costs $50/mo because I'm not required to pay for things that I don't need, and the things that I do need are (usually) cheaper because the people I'm paying are (usually) competing for my business. Since I am healthy, the vast bulk of that $50/mo still goes to help other people who pay the same amount but need more attention (more resources), which is fine with me because my participation is voluntary and I can quit anytime I want if I feel cooperation is no longer worth it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2022
  4. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The OP isn't saying the US health system is bad in itself, but that the nature of the infrastructure means it will only work well in good times, and doesn't necessarily respond well to national emergencies or extremes, like the COVID pandemic. Ultimately, a profit motivated industry is only going to work as long as there is profit to be made.

    That isn't to say that I agree that Universal Healthcare would be a magic solution to this (or any other) problem, only that Americans should recognise and accept that the problem exists.

    It's certainly true that no simply ranking system ranking system could properly cover the full range of what good healthcare is (whatever that is taken to mean). Different measures can be created to present pretty much any result you want, and are, both for and against Universal Healthcare systems and both for and against the US system specifically.

    I don't think that means all of the unfavourable factors considered in these rankings should be dismissed out of hand though. To take one example, the article you link dismisses the relevance of general health of the population (specifically obesity) because that is a personal choice. I would suggest that a good healthcare system would encourage and support people in making better general health choices though, since that is equally (or more) beneficial given that prevention is better than cure.
     
  5. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    From the link in #2:
    ". . . . Outcomes in the U.S. for the treatments of the leading causes of death rank the country either at the top or very near the top in benefits to patients when compared to other industrialized countries. A fair measurement of the effectiveness of health care delivery should be based on clinical outcomes, not ideological bias."
     
  6. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, that is what it said. And while I agree that clinical outcomes are relevant (and ideology irrelevant), I don't think that is the be-all and end-all.
     
  7. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, clinical outcomes are not the most important thing; they are the only thing.
     
  8. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So if there was a healthcare system where 100% of the treated patients were cured but only 10% of the population could access the system at all, that would be fine?
     
  9. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    Sorry, straw men not allowed.
     
  10. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    The US has close to a million people dead from COVID. And people have the gall to say the healthcare system isn’t that bad? Not really the best argument to make when it’s clear the free market has failed.
     
  11. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

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    That's a Straw Man Fallacy.

    There is no Free Market anywhere in the healthcare system, except in the pharmaceutical industry and the medical equipment industry.

    The American Hospital Association (AHA) pressured State legislatures to enact "enabling laws" which allow hospitals to legally operate as monopolies and monopolistic cartels.

    Sorry, that is proof of the absence of Free Market, and proof of your Straw Man Fallacy.

    The AHA also pressures your State legislatures to mandate what insurance covers. That is proof of a Command Market System, not a Free Market System.

    I'm sure you could afford to pay $6.78/month for $100,000 of ER coverage in the event you sprain your thumb whilst typing on the keyboard.

    Why don't you shop around and see who will sell you $100,000 of ER coverage?

    Oh, that's right, you can't because your State legislature says you have to buy the whole package or nothing at all, which is further proof of a Command Market System.

    You can thank your Congress for guaranteeing that you can only buy group health plan coverage through an employer and not on the open market, which is again the absence of Free Market.

    Very obviously, you have no clue how your State and federal governments and the AHA single-handedly created the nightmare system you hate.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2022
  12. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    IIRC, Kranes lives outside the US(?)
     

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