Young LNP against Abstudy

MEMBER for Hinkler Paul Neville has criticised the LNP's call to abolish Abstudy payments for indigenous students as a "short-sighted" move that could lead to the party being branded bigots.

In a close ballot yesterday as part of the party's state convention, the LNP backed the withdrawal of the indigenous study support scheme, after the Young LNP moved the motion on the grounds students receiving the payments should be rolled into the wider Austudy scheme to end "positive discrimination".

But Mr Neville told the convention the scheme was a vital one and that scrapping it would "brand us a mob of bigots", and urged the delegates to reject the move.

"If you want to break the cycle of poverty and disadvantage, the weapon is education," Mr Neville told the NewsMail later.

"I think sometimes there has to be positive discrimination to correct past errors."

Mr Neville said the move was "short-sighted".

"They said (Abstudy) should be eliminated and that all secondary and tertiary assistance should be on a level playing field," he said.

"In the dying days of the Howard government, they had an intervention in the Northern Territory, which was positive discrimination because they felt Aboriginal children were not getting a fair go in many areas such as education.

"We wouldn't have intervened in the Northern Territory if they hadn't seen a grave need and the same argument applies here."

Mr Neville said he believed his opinion that the move was not properly thought out was backed up by an urgency motion calling on the Federal Government to examine better ways of providing assistance to indigenous students.

"I think there was a realisation you can't chop the head off Abstudy without a substitute," he said.

"(Abstudy is) about $8000-$8500, but if you're educating a child - unless you're living in a university city like Bundaberg or Rockhampton - to educate a child at a tertiary or upper school level, you're looking at a cost of $18,000-$21,000, which is a big gap.

"It's not as if Abstudy is covering all the costs - not by a long shot."

It is not yet known if the LNP will lobby the Federal Government, which oversees the study support schemes, to make the change.

"I couldn't in any good conscience support any motion that limited the opportunity to break the cycle," Mr Neville said.

http://www.news-mail.com.au/story/2012/07/16/mp-criticises-lnps-vote-against-abstudy-scheme-abs/

 

Discrimination is discrimintion, no matter how it`s twisted. Having said that, I believe that there is too much neurotic over reaction to the word "discrimination", we all discriminate every day of our lives. To make any descision is to discriminate, making descisions shouldn`t be illegal.

As to Abstudy, this is discrimination by BS PC standards, so is the rewriting of our history by selective omission and selective emphasis by PC cry babies. The greatest threat to our Aboriginal people is the victim mentality, nurtured by those who want to use Aborigines as a politicall football.

Hopefully, the day is soon to come when, someone in Paul Neville`s position could have simply said "Abstudy has had guite a bit of success in helping Aborigines transform their lives for the better, it needs some adjustment, but it has been working, keep it going". Too many Aborigines do it too hard. There are all sorts of reasons for this, so we need to work on the true facts warts and all, and get rid of the pathetic (*)(*)(*)(*)(*) footing, apologetic BS, go nowhere, patronising grovel.

 

Positive discrimination on race is racism. Positive discrimination is needed, but it should not be based on race, it should be based on circumstance. If a particular race just happens to constitute the majority of people in those circumstances then so be it.

 

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By urunfast from Bilambil Heights, about 21 hours ago Reply | Suggest removal

Good one Paul! You wouldn't think Aboriginal people were only given citizenship rights in 1967 whereby previously they were classified simply as flora and fauna, gauged by comments on here. You wouldn't think they were the least housed, most incarcerated, least employed and highest mortality rates etc.....STILL. You wouldn't think they weren't allowed to participate fully in society up until that referendum. You wouldn't think that their land was taken on the false premise of Terra Nullius, which has had perpetual negative impacts throughout european existance in Australia due to cultural significance. You wouldn't think that those negative policies of the not so distant past damaged the pysche, motivation and self worth of their very beings, in their own land. You wouldn't think that those negative policies targeted one group of people. I mean what more can you say about the ignorance and superficiality of these people. I'm just glad you people do not represent the view of the educated!

 

Truth, have the Aboriginal people ever sued the Australian government?? If they haven't surely they would compensated in the billions?

 

Yes it is a very sad reflection on our past. It is hard to believe that in most of our lifetimes (well us old codgers), the Indigenous peoples of Australia were classed as animals.

Oh no, this makes you a PC bleeding heart, not, good work

 

The Aboriginal people aren't after wealth, just a fair go. Gina Rinehart, the worlds richest woman, has a half sister of Aboriginal descent, who by all rights has claim to some of the millions, says she is not interested in money, she (Gina) can keep it.

 

Australia is a big place, so you would have to think so (suing)!! I think connected Aboriginal people are more motivated toward gaining land back more than money due to the spirituality factor, so maybe this is the reason why litigation hasn't taken place along these lines. I personally know of many Kooris who are quite educated, I suppose due to the opportunities that Abstudy has given them possibly. As most of us know, things are no where near parity, therefore I would see it as quite a shame if this was lost to em! We aussies are known for sinking the boot into the tall poppies, its a shame some of us want to do it to the lowly.

 

Just a small point here, Most of the indigenous Folk I know, have actually improved their education, by battling the odds on their own. I do not think, anybody should give credit to any government, for their own efforts. It is belittling their ability and achievements.

 

But when you reflect on it garry, it only has been in latter years that we've seen a huge increase of aboriginal people in sport, the arts, politics and professions etc. You could probably pinpoint this to the event 40 years ago. I reckon both sides of government have contributed. My understanding is the largest percentage of our national budget was contributed by the howard government to indigenous affairs. I know he was contoversial regarding aboriginal issues, but I suppose he was backing up his notion of practical reconciliation.

 

Yes, I know. The last 40 years has seen much change. but it has not been easy for the indigenous people to fill many of these positions. Yes, government would have contributed to a certain degree, but they also have battled much in taking the opportunity. I do not think, that we should applaud a government, any government, for doing what is morally right.

 

Where have europeans gone and not trampled on the natives?

I honestly cant think of one place!

Its also funny that europeans being educated and all have committed some of the biggest atrocities against the natives of all lands they conquered.

Imagine what they would have done if they where barbarians. LOL

 

Excellent point garry. I admit, I overlooked this completely.

 

I suppose, it could have been worse, they could of had the dutch...hmmmm

 

We can't move into the future unless we leave the past behind. Now is the time to make the step.

If you don't want segregation.......stop segregating !

 

Personally I would prefer to call it conciliation, not reconciliation, that makes it sound like we were at peace with the Aboriginals at some time.

 

Aboriginal people were segragated negatively to a huge disadvantage imo. I wouldn't call it segragating, I would call it correcting this disadvantage that was attributed to a whole race of people. It's easy for us to say...move on! but when a whole race of people still live with great disadvantage, then don't you think it is a bit rude to say.......leave the past behind you!

 

Yes it is important to remember the past. So we try and not make the same mistakes again. Hmm like Anzac Day

 

Vigilante with all due respect you don't know me and have no idea what my geneological background is. So assumptions should be put aside to avoid embarrassment.

 

I was more making a point, not meaning to be presumptuous about your geneology.

 

No Dramas Vigilante, not trying to start a blue.

it is fine to remember the past but we must be careful not to let it rule our futures. This is what is happening here. I know it is good intentions, but there is certainly a case to be made for too much love. I have watched family and friends destroy themselves over the years, and the funny thing is that the people who copped the worst of it are the ones that are doing alright. This is a generalisation from what I have witnessed. Not saying they were not affected, but they seem to of found a way through it. My uncle once told me that you can't expect other people to pull you out of the (*)(*)(*)(*) if all you want to do is lay around in it........in other words in the end you are responsible for you and how you proceed in this world.

What a lot of people with these good intentions don't realise is that unwittingly they are the main segregators, not the racists they will never change as it is seeded deep in their being. The fact is that whenever there is a compensation involved (usually monetary) it is a stark reminder that we are different. What about all the chinese that came here and were murdered on the gold fields, they were deemed lower than the aborigine. Dont see much crying over that. Definitely no compensation to those families. Why ? Funny they have seemed to of moved on. They haven't forgotten, and nor should they, the past is there to remember and as DV put it......Learn from.

With all this bleeding heart stuff, it makes the job harder for us all to move forward as one. Because what you are doing is pointing out the difference and creating segregation. I firmly believe that it is human nature to be jealous, and in this case jealousy has been breeding discrimination. My nephew gets looked after , after school because his parents both work until 5pm. Her has sandwiches and milk provided, all free, because he is indiginous. His best friend is in the same situation but his parents have to pay $ 10 per day for the same service, because he is Greek. If that is not segregation I don't know what is. In turn this breeds jealousy which in turn turns to discrimination by those that are not by that persuasion. Human nature.

I know this is all with good intentions, but it is like home. The kids leave crap all over the floor of their rooms and Mum picks it up everyday. It is only when Mum stops that they actually learn to pick the crap up themselves.

We will never move on when there is inequity of any kind, perceived or actual.

 

Just a rudimentry glance at what has happened over the past couple of hundred years. Aborigines prior to white settlement, (bearing in mind that the term Aborigine includes a broad variety of types of people) lived "a" lifestyle that was completely different to that of Europeans. Communal, nomadic within their tribal boundaries, non agricultural, ecxlusively hunter gathering, they were highly skilled warriors, extremely so, but they waged war differently to the European way. An Aboriginal warrior was the ultimate guerilla fighter, he was capable of incredible feats of stamina, and stealth. He couldn`t survive without mind blowing skills with his seemingly primitive weapons, he could instantly launch his war spear with his woomera with greater range and accuracy than that of a black powder revolver. These were a very small fraction of his highly tuned fighting powers. Neither Aboriginal men, or women were weaklings, the weak didn`t survive.

One of the greatest tragedies has been the simple fact that white settlement has clashed with almost every facet of the Aboriginal way of life / spirituality / mindset, to the detriment of Aborigines. When we search for an incentive for Aborigines to somehow completely reinvent themselves, to fit in with white society, from an Aboriginal`s point of view, there has never been an incentive. Nevertheless, although our backgrounds could hardly more opposed, our personal differences are virtually non existant. We are all the same, a good Aborigine is the same as a good white person, a bit more fun to be with perhaps, but nearly the same.

So, what are we going to do about it?

 

Nelson Mandela.......a great human, when he became president had situation arise within his party where they wanted vengeance on white society. Not too many could argue their right to retaliation. But Mandela knew there could be no turning back, history was history, so he implored his people to rise above the past, not forget it, just rise above it and move towards the future. For so long they had fought segregation and then as soon as they had the power what ? They wanted to segregate ? That would make them no better than their oppressors.

i coach soccer and my team is an equal mix of white kids and black kids. I find a real identity crisis with all of them, they talk like Americans, yo know what i mean dowg ! It iritates me no end. My aboriginal players are the worst, telling people they is gonna cap dere ass, or no what i sayin'. For me it is dissapointing, for i feel a fine and proud culture is being lost to television and the need to look up to something. It makes me sad that they don't seem to think they have something to look up to other than black gang members in the US. Where did we as a people lose them ? Have we been too busy being victims to see the demise of ourselves as a culture ?

Aussie for me we can't move forward because we are restraining ourselves with the past. What are we looking for ? What will it take to move on ? Money ? We get enough of that. An apology ? We got that. What is it we are looking for ?

 

I went to Mt.Isa for business and was told of a story about a white lady who hit and killed a Indigenous person by accident with her car, She stopped and called for help, Aboriginal people found her first and saw what she did and ended up killing her, One comment I was told is that if anything like that happens townspeople are warned not to stop.

Would this culture be identified in the way it is if the Europeans had not of come over? If things like this are still happening then I believe we are not giving them what we took. I do not think it is fair that a person who has no family,relatives should move on because they have had an apology, They harness anger which is passed on to the younger culture, which will most likely pass on their hatred, Surely this cannot be fixed with an apology.

 

then in your opinion what will fix it ?

Ps. I grew up just fine, and harness no hatred toward anyone. I really don't know if the young aboriginal youth know exactly what they are supposed to hate, and to be honest I don't think there is a widespread hatred within the indiginous community. I actually think that is something the wider community has come up with. In regards to mount Isa I don't think it would of mattered if the women was white, black, purple, or green. They were angry one of their family and friends was killed. What followed was an absolute tragedy. yes there is anger but I don't think its widespread. where did you hear that the tv. They wouldn't beat something up would they ?