zero ground: The first shot.

Discussion in 'JFK' started by danrush1966, Feb 26, 2013.

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  1. danrush1966

    danrush1966 New Member

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    The first shot in the assassination is key to the distance/timeline factor. It is from this spot where the 265 ft distance to the head shot rests and where Oswald's shooting clock began. From witnesses and testamony, this is where the first shot was....

    [​IMG]

    Where the four seat open car is sitting in this picture. The first shot took place just as the limo passed under the traffic sign.

    [​IMG]

    Frame 140 of the Zapruder film.

    And what is the distance from that spot to the head shot?

    [​IMG]

    264.9 ft.

    The case is closed. 3 shots, 1 shooter, Lee Harvey Oswald.
     
  2. porsteamboy

    porsteamboy New Member

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    First shot at frame 140, not so...this is the corroborating evidence...THE Z-FILM- SA Ready and Landis were on the right running board of the Presidential follow up car and they stated, that when they heard the first noise they looked to their right rear. If you look at the Zapruder film, with sprocket holes, you'll see SA Ready and Landis looking forward from the time they come into view of Zapruder's camera view, until they go out of view at frame Z- 212. Also SA Hickey, in the left rear seat of the follow up car stated...when he heard the first noise he stood up and looked to his right rear and the noise souned like it came from ground level. ALTGENS # 6 PHOTO- SA Ready, Landis and Hickey are looking to their right rear in the photo. Altgens stated the he took his photo almost at the same time as the first shot, the WC fixed his photo Z-255, two seconds after that shot, which would make the shot around Z-220. PILLIP WILLIS PHOTO- WC fixed the Wills photo at Z- 220, he also stated he took his photo at the same time as he heard the first noise. His daughter Linda Willis gave testimony that she was diectly across from the Stemmons Freeway sign, when the fist shot hit the President. Officer Mation Baker gave testimony that he was riding his motor cycle along side of the last press car. When he turned the corner of main and Houston the President's car was turning onto Elm St. At about 60' from the curb line of main and Houston he heard the first shot and all the shots by 80 ft. There is no way that the first shot was at Z-140 or before Z-212 and strong corroborating evidence that it was at around Z-220.
     
  3. 7forever

    7forever Active Member

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    IT'S ABOUT TIME YOU CRAWL OUT OF THE HOLE YOU'VE BEEN HIDING. You need to get busy and start telling the truth.
     
  4. porsteamboy

    porsteamboy New Member

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    You should take your own advice!
     
  5. 7forever

    7forever Active Member

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    I did and you were there with me in the old scam and let's roll days.
     
  6. porsteamboy

    porsteamboy New Member

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    You still pushing the lame Greer did it Theory!
     
  7. danrush1966

    danrush1966 New Member

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    The first shot did not hit the President. The testamony closest to the event is always the most accurate and in his first recount of the shooting, Governor Conally stated the following....

    This was his first full account on television in 1964. It is the same account he gave the Warren Commission.

    [video=youtube;0Q40kO48nrs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Q40kO48nrs[/video]

    And again in 1966 when he refutted the stupidity of conspiracy jack ass Mark Lane.

    [video=youtube;UhSIHCTTaWg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhSIHCTTaWg[/video]
     
  8. danrush1966

    danrush1966 New Member

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    [video=youtube;BT2Zz22A7SY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BT2Zz22A7SY[/video]

    You have Tina Towner and Amos Euans who both corroberate the placement of the car and the sound of the first shot. What you must remember about rifles is that by the time you hear the "crack!" as the bullet breaks the sound barrier, the round is already long past and gone so some people may react to hearing a bullet strike while others only react to the rifle report.

    http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/scearce.htm

    The Mcadams site here seems on target with wittness statements. The actual shot, the moment the gun went off, had to have happened between 140 and 145. That and Oswald not using the scope is the only way he could have made all the shots within the 14 seconds the car traveled 265 feet to the head shot.
     
  9. porsteamboy

    porsteamboy New Member

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    What Connally is saying here, is he was hit by the second bullet. He heard the first report, turned to his right and as he was turning back to his left, that's when he was hit and he heard the third shot and saw the rsults. And Mrs. Connally stated, she heard the first shot, saw the president react to that shot and then her husband was hit by the second shot. Bill Greer, the driver of JFK's limo, stated, when he glanced back, he saw Connally hit and started falling toward his wife and when he turned back back he heard the third shot . You have one close witness, Mrs. Connally, stating that JFK was hit by the first bullet and her husband was hit by the second, then you have a second close witness, Bill Greer corroborating Mrs. Connally, that her husband was hit by the second shot. Testimony of the SS Agents in JFK's follow up car, Police officer Marion Baker, Altgens Photo, Willis photo and most of the witnesses around the Stemmons Freeway sign, all corroborate that JFK was hit by the first shot and that is what the Z-film shows.
     
  10. porsteamboy

    porsteamboy New Member

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    What they are trying to prove in this video, is that the first shot missed. And the reason they are having a hard time proving it, is because it didn't miss.
     
  11. 7forever

    7forever Active Member

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    Both the Governor and President reacted to a shot around 160, that missed.
     
  12. porsteamboy

    porsteamboy New Member

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    Not according to the witness testimony I posted, What witneses stated that there was a shot around Z frame-160. In the Z-film ( with sprocket holes) do you see SA Ready and Landis looking forward! They stated when they heard the first noise they looked to their right rear. Jame Altgens said he took his photo # 6 at about the time of the first shot, which was fixed by the WC at Z-255, two seconds before that shot. That would make the first shot About Z-220. If you look at Altgens # 6 you'll see SA Ready, landis and Hickey looking to their right rear and they did that when they heard the first noise. Phillip Willis stated he took his photo at about the same time as the first shot, the WC fixed it at Z-220.
     
  13. danrush1966

    danrush1966 New Member

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    Wrong....The governor stated that the first shot did not hit him and the timing of the shots he described fit more to the use of a single bolt action rifle firing three shots. The first missed, the second went through the 2 men, the third hit Kennedy's head.

    Tina Towner and Amos Euens both co-oberated the placement of the car at the moment they both heard the first shot. In the sprocket cleared Z-Film you see the rear left agent in the follow up car duck his body and turn his head to his left, you see Governor Connaly suddenly snap his head left and right, JFK stops waving and looks left at the spot described by Euens and Towner. It was this shot that struck the left side street curb and went on to graze James Tague's cheek. near the underpass.
     
  14. danrush1966

    danrush1966 New Member

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    Apparently the reenactment of the shell ejection sequence matching the crime scene photos from the TSBD escapes people's brains. For the farthest shell in the picture to be where it was, the rifle was nearly 90 degrees perpendicullar to the window frame, I did this experament myself and I got the same result. With the rifle at perpendicullar, the first shot was practically strait down from the building to Elm and would be in line with what Euens and Towner described.
     
  15. porsteamboy

    porsteamboy New Member

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    http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z220.jpg This is a still from the Z-film, frame 220. If you look in the back fround, toward Main and Houston Sts., you'll see the yellow convertible press car that officer Marion Baker was escorting on the right side. He gave WC testimony that he heard the first shot 60' from the curb on Main and Houston Sts. and heard all the shots by 80'. SA Ready and Landis stated when they heard the first noise the looked to their right rear. Howard Brennan stated when he heard the first noise he looked up at the sixth floor window of the TSBD. If you look at the Z-film you'll see Ready, Landis and Brennan looking forward until Z frame 212, when they go out of view of Zapruder's camera. The Z-film proves that no shot was fired before Z-frame 212 and JFK was hit by the first bullet at frame 220.
     
  16. 7forever

    7forever Active Member

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    The government said the first shot missed, which both sides agree happened. Both men reacted to the that shot at 160 or before. That is proven by simply watching them. Connally said he was shot between 231-234, and Nellie said 229. There were three early shots and maybe one was suppressed but the facts bear that out.
     
  17. danrush1966

    danrush1966 New Member

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    They are trying to prove the exact location of the car at the moment of the first shot because where the car was is central to proving the event time and proving that it was one man, three shots. Where Towner and Euens place the limo, the shot clock grows to 14 seconds not 8 and if I can fire three aimed shots using the iron sites of my carcano at 11.3 seconds, then Oswald could more than accomplish the shots.

    And you couldn't have a first shot where you say it was because the first spent shell would have hit the stacked boxes next to Oswald and tumbled under the window or at his feet, I've tried this and every time with my first ejection, I struck the boxes behind me. Only with the rifle near perpendicullar to the window frame did the first shell land as shown in photos by the warren report and the warren report doesn't touch on this finding.

    With Governor Conally's statement, you would think if the first two shots were super close as you say they are in the z film, I can't see how he could be so accurate with the shots being so close. His account has a considerable pause and description which I think affirms my belief that there was 5.5 to 6 seconds between the first shot, Oswalds cocking and aiming and the second bullet.
     
  18. porsteamboy

    porsteamboy New Member

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    There was no shot before Z-212 and there is strong evidence against the first shot missing.
     
  19. porsteamboy

    porsteamboy New Member

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    The WC knows were the car was when JFK was shot in the back, between Z-frames 210 and 225, they based this on the Wills photo ( he stated he took that photo at the first shot) and the Z- film. James Altgens stated he took his photo # 6 almost the same time as the first shot, the WC fixed his photo at Z-frame 255 and two seconds after that shot, which would make it about Z-frame 220. Here is two witnesses that took photos and say the first shot occurred between Z-frames 210 and 220. Three witnesses in the follow up car, SA Ready, Landis and Hickey stated...when they heard the first noise they looked to their right rear, you can see in the Z-film ( with sprocket holes ) at Z-frame 212 SA Ready is still looking forward. Look at the Z-film from the time it turns on Elm St., SA Ready and Landis are looking forward, if the first shot occured at Z-frame 140 we should see the Secret service agents looking to their right rear and SA Hickey in the left back seat of the follow up car starting to stand looking to his, right rear. Most of the close witnesses that heard the first shot stated JFK reacted to that shot and most witnesses stated that there was a longer pause between the first shot and the second, than there was between the second and third shot..
     
  20. danrush1966

    danrush1966 New Member

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    Who cares about bullet number 2, we know where number 2 and 3 were fired but the Warren Commission failed to account for the first bullet, That's what sets the shot clock.
     
  21. danrush1966

    danrush1966 New Member

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    So we'll just discount the statements of the men who were below the 6th floor window on the fifth floor who in their accounts heard 3 booms evenly spaced apart with a little more time between shot 2 and shot 3, which still makes the 11.3 seconds of the 14 second event time.

    Why don't you perform the experament with a bolt action rifle? Tell me what results you get? Though I bet you won't try for fear of being proven wrong.
     
  22. porsteamboy

    porsteamboy New Member

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    Because the Back shot was the first shot!
     
  23. porsteamboy

    porsteamboy New Member

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    Here is what the three men,Norman, Williams and Jarman, had to say...Harold Norman, First off, Norman said he saw the President slump after the first shot. Then he said..."I heard a shot and several seconds later I heard two more shots". Bonnie Ray Williams..."The first shot--there was two shots rather close together. The second and third shot was closer together than the first and the second shot. As I remember". James Jarman..." I thought the shot came from below--well, it sounded-- I thought at first it came from below". "Well, they all sounded about the same". No, we should not discount what they said, but we should discount what you said they said!
     
  24. danrush1966

    danrush1966 New Member

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    And they asked Norman and he's been asked repeatedly to describe the timing of the shots.

    "I heard "boom" then "click,click" then boom then "click, click" then a boom!"

    People can take any statement and twist it when they have an idiological, political bent to their thinking, which is what most JFK conspiracy idiots have, they make their claims for money, out of hate for America, out of detesting Jews....any investigator must have a non-bias towards any group and go on reason and research not wild fantasy claims. I stopped all that crap after I actually got my hands on a carcano and really started doing honest investigation with sniper nest mock ups and studying the mathmatics involved.

    If you have any bias what so ever, like most of your spout, your worthless as investigators.
     
  25. porsteamboy

    porsteamboy New Member

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    http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/norman_1.htm This is what Norman stated in his Affidavit on Nov 22, 1963.
     

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