Christianity and our Nation.

If someone were to try that, there would be reason to punish those who tried.

That is NOT happening.

And, for decades Israel has been making war on Gaza, and now is carrying out genocide.

If that's not group punishment, then what is it?

Palestinian as in citizens of Palestine. And, we can talk about Israel's apartheid some other time.

OK, this is just WAY off topic.

But, remember that my opinions expressed here are consistent with our constitution and the UN, which we were instrumental in bringing about.

And, mixing international politics with discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation is SERIOUSLY perverse - wouldn't you agree?

 

Totally untrue. But you may keep it. It doesn't change what Gaza via Hamas, has brought on itself. I suspect that when Israel is finished, Hamas will have been reduced to so many grave markers. The world is changing quickly. And people best get themselves right with God as best as they can.

 

According to their own scriptures, the Jews committed many sins for which they were chastised and/or punished. So the notion that their God is a fabrication to absolve themselves of sin is contrary to their own admission of sin, and the consequences they bore. Following their Prophets command to destroy an enemy is not a sin. Nor were they(except for their King) punished by God for doing his will. Even the very beginning of their sacred text shows them sinning against God, eating the wrong food and being punished. It is quite an honest book rather than drawn up to make themselves look good.

 

Are you suggesting that you KNEW that if Hamas carried out one single terrorist even that Israel would slaughter tens of thousands of civilians, destroy all civil infrastructure from hospitals to universities, from sanitation to electric power, and starve the population to death, and STILL not consider their slaughter done?

I would not have guessed that Israel is a nation that could choose to carry out such profound humanitarian crimes.

 

God helped Joshua to slaughter every man, woman and child (and animal) in order to steal their land.

Are you suggesting that couldn't be happening again, right now, and in the same area?

 

The United States of America is Gods country. He is the cause of our freedom and equality. We are beholden to him to be civil in our hearts in compliance with his love for all he has given us. I don't simply believe that God lives. Nor am I converted by reading, hearing, or reasoning. I know that God is real, that he lives and is divine. I know by the visitation of his spirit in my heart, body, soul, and mind. His spirit awakened me to a remembrance of him. And so I am turned to him because he is holy and I am not. At that, I have no hunger for the philosophies or religions of men. He has given me into the hand of his only begotten Son Jesus Christ, without whom no man could be saved or have hope of salvation or continuance. I have no goodness of my own but what is given me by him. Were I to take it and boast of myself, I'd be accepted in the world.

 

Yes - I've well know that is your personal belief.

But, I don't see any part of your belief that would justify genocide - even though the Bible says God helped Joshua slaughter every man, woman and child of the nation-state of Jericho.

It's just not consistent with the message of Jesus.

And, America certainly stands strong against against group punishment - even when it is no more than a fine.

We need America to stand for something if we plan on having a position of leadership in this world.

 

Jesus said to either follow him and his gospel to life or go to the death. He also said few would live and many would die. That is consistent with Joshua and Jericho. The question is, is God real. If he is, then his commands are unassailable, perfect, just, wise, and true to his purpose. You say the matter is evil. But you say that without knowing God, Joshua or Jericho. So you judge without all the information. God didn't have his people kill all the peoples they came upon...only the people of Jericho. That the concept may repulse you isn't an answer to the question of why it was done. Or why the King of the Jews was dethroned by God for sparing the King of Jericho out of compassion against the command of God to spare no one. Why was God so strict. Maybe it was done and preserved in word to show future generations the wages of sin, to show the serious nature of repentance, and Gods intolerance for anything short of purity and full purpose of heart. God knows all, the end from the beginning. He knows our hearts and that everyone will be resurrected to immortality. Our very lives belong to him because he gave it. Who knows what the lesson is in Jericho. I only know not to presume to judge God, thinking that it will somehow absolve me of accountability for my life. That would be a vain and short lived satisfaction.

 

If Israel were led by a Prophet who commanded them to do that, then that is what would be happening. But Israel isn't led by a prophet who commanded such a thing. Neither is Israel killing everyone in Gaza. They have telegraphed their plan to begin in the north and move south. They are warning the inhabitants to move out of the buildings they intend to bomb. They are sparing who they can while eliminating Hamas and not putting themselves in harms way. This is all due to Hamas being embedded everywhere in Gaza, hiding behind and under the populace. If the posted number by Hamas of the dead are to be believed, it doesn't distinguish between Hamas fighters and civilians. It is also about one percent of the population which is clearly not genocide. Neither are they there to take the land. They are there to end Hamas after what Hamas did to Israel on Oct. 7th. Otherwise the IDF wouldn't be there. This is common knowledge. What happens after the IDF routs Hamas is anybody's guess. Clearly Gaza will have to rebuild and form a new government with Israeli or UN oversight so that they don't elect another terrorist group and once again torment Israel.

 

He was clearly talking about the afterlife he promoted.

No, Joshua vs Jericho is known from the Bible and it is NOT consistent with the message of Jesus.

The claims of the absolute made by you for your god don't address the fact that the Bible says his very existence must be taken on faith.

Everybody's gods must be taken on faith, of course. And, everybody's gods are likely to have absolute attributes such as the ones you claim for your God.

I'm not suggesting you should abandon your God. Far from it.

But, this Earth is a religiously plural Earth, and we are a religiously plural nation.

And, I don't believe your God was setting up an Earthly war of human v human to prove something.

Jesus certainly did not present us with a duty to assault others. The life he lived was simply NOT like that.

Jesus advised the harlot to "go and sin no more". But, he didn't say that if she DID sin, he would send his teammates to catch and punish her.

 

Netanyahu leads the Likud party, a strict fundamentalist religious order in Israeli politics. He is a Zionist, who like others believes God is giving him Palestine. His IDF is slaughtering the citizens of Gaza. How is that different than Joshua?

The myth of Israel moving people from where they will bomb is a total political fiction.

They say Rafah is safe. But, they bomb it in the night with no warning. There is NO place in Gaza that is safe from US/Israeli bombs at ANY time. The IDF bombs the tents of refugee camps.

Yes, Israel doesn't distinguish whether those they kill are any of the fighting brigades that defend Gaza. They kill the press, aid workers, hospitals, apartments (where one US bomb takes out a city block of apartments). The buried bodies of those at hospitals show people with hands tied, with IVs still attached, shot in the back of the head, and some show distinct signs of being buried alive. These are doctors, nurses and patients. They are NOT Hamas.

The war didn't start on Oct 7. Israel has held Gaza in a siege that is universally recognized as war, and has done so for decades.

There are obvious reasons for Oct 7. Before, Israel's war on Gaza was below the world's radar. There was no way out for Gaza. West Bank proved that negotiations are a blind alley.

Now, Gaza has the attention of the world - a HUGE step forward. And, it's known that Israel can not win this war, because Gaza is simply too well defended.

 

You and I are in alternate universes. So I will bid you adieu.

 

When God is despised, moral judgement fails.

 

Bull sh*t

Despising God has ZERO to do with moral judgement.

Moral judgement happens all the time and God is not involved in the slightest.

We have NOTHING that is said to have come DIRECTLY from a god in over 2000 years and yet we make moral judgements all the time on things that were never even conceived of at the time of the Bible

Again, the Bible, the alleged "Word of God" supports things that we, in a modern Western Society, deem as reprehensible. It is the "despising" of God (or the rejection of the Biblical teachings) that have allowed us to find REAL "moral judgement"

 

Your post is evidence of that.

 

Well said. To despise God is immoral. The more he is despised and put away, the more wicked the people become. It is more apparent as time goes on in American society.

 

I have not despised your god nor your belief in that god.

The Bible contains strong philosophy that we should follow.

But, the way we have entangled religion in our political system is an abomination. It has driven us to horrible decisions.

Read Matthew 25:31 to end - the words of Jesus sometimes called the story of the sheep and goats.

We as a nation and as a Christian church are failing this direction Jesus calls for in numerous extreme ways.

Read the letters to the remote churches of the day. Nowhere does it call for Christians to carry out atrocities on those considered nonbelievers.

Christians are the salesmen oft heir religion, not the judges of mankind as made clear so many times, starting with the story of Eden, where mankind is denied the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

 

Evidence is all around us!

 

We need to learn to work together, rather than attempting to claim absolutes.

Politics is how government works. And, politics depends on working together, not on having one sector claim absolutes.