Erosion of Access to Abortion in the United Sates

And all those potential brothers and sisters that failed to implant?

 

I agree with some of the above. I wasn't in existance as an egg and a sperm. So contraception doesn't kill people because reproductive cells are not people. I really don't understand the logic of liberal thought process other that to obfuscate and cloud the issue. Once the egg has been fertilized it creates a unique individual human being. There is no other point in the process where you can definitively say, no, this is the begining of life. At least I have failed to see one of you present me with just such a moment.

Failure to implant hardly seems like a good reason to abort those that do implant.

 

Your opinion, not fact. And you completely ignore that identical twins are not created at conception, but days later.

"Life" began billions of years ago. Multiple dictionaries state that the life of an individual begins at birth, not conception.

Why do you think there must be some arbitrary "moment"? Even conception doesn't take a moment; it's a process that takes up to 48 hours.

 

Errrr - totally irrelevant red herring strawman. I never made the claim that it was, so attempting to debunk that claim as if I made it is nothing short of intellectual dishonesty--the strawman fallacy. The part of my post about geography wasn't really even the point of my post, which your argument just totally conveniently ignored, the point of my post was that Victoria is one of several states in Australia, therefore its law does not immediately apply to the rest of the world, therefore people living in different parts of the world can still have differing opinions as to what legislation in Victoria, Australia has deigned to deem as an objective legal definition for all living there. That is the point my argument made.

 

Implantation can and often is considered to be the beginning of pregnancy and therefore the beginning of life

 

There we go again! There are no "person" being aborted!

There is a cluster of cells, an embryo, a zygote or a very early fetus that has no chance to ever develop a brain, much less a functioning brain without the complete cooperation of a carrier's womb.

 

Hogwash…..

What happened to PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, doing what is right? Why should the government tote the load for everyone who makes a mistake. Why don't we abide by our own laws on the books…….and throw all the illegals…NOT SOME….all the illegals out and start taking care of OUR OWN. Maybe taxes would not have to be raised at all.

Why not train and teach our children that what they do they are responsible for..and should live with. Your another person sadly who just champions killing..how sad.

 

Sadanie…sorry to say but this statement shows your ignorance. Most unborns are aborted after the heart starts beating. You have no clue about fetal development, I would suggest getting educated about this.

It is a factual statement that life starts at conception..so says science. It is not a rock…not a cherry pit…..not a zoo animal….it is a already started living being.

Science says this. I am so sick of having to explain this to people who just come on here to slam pro-lifers.

It is sad that you would condone an unborn baby to die at nine months in the womb…..that says way more about you than it could ever about someone who just wants to allow a life to live.

SAd….your position is sad.

 

You are very fond of the phrase "science says", so please keep in mind that "science says" sperm and eggs are human AND ALIVE. Since "science says" sperm and eggs are ALIVE, that means LIFE is present BEFORE conception. Put on your thinking hat now, and don't just parrot the same stuff you heard at the pro-life meetings, and try to grasp that life being present before conception means that life didn't start AT conception.

 

Actually "science" is equivocal about when life starts - before or after the beginning of pregnancy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beginning_of_pregnancy_controversy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beginning_of_human_personhood

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/tgr/08/2/gr080207.html

 

They are alive but alone they are not a living human being. Without the egg the sperm is nothing …without the sperm with egg is nothing. It becomes a being when conception takes place.

Grannie I have posted many sources…of scientific fact and NOTHING I HAVE PUT ON HERE HAS SATISFIED PRO-ABORTS. It does not matter does it? You just want abortion legal so that women can kill.

You need to get a better knowledge of what science says.

 

HERE WE GO AGAIN…..

http://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/embryoquotes2.html


"Development of the embryo begins at Stage 1 when a sperm fertilizes an oocyte and together they form a zygote."
[England, Marjorie A. Life Before Birth. 2nd ed. England: Mosby-Wolfe, 1996, p.31]

"Human development begins after the union of male and female gametes or germ cells during a process known as fertilization (conception).

"Fertilization is a sequence of events that begins with the contact of a sperm (spermatozoon) with a secondary oocyte (ovum) and ends with the fusion of their pronuclei (the haploid nuclei of the sperm and ovum) and the mingling of their chromosomes to form a new cell. This fertilized ovum, known as a zygote, is a large diploid cell that is the beginning, or primordium, of a human being."
[Moore, Keith L. Essentials of Human Embryology. Toronto: B.C. Decker Inc, 1988, p.2]

"Embryo: the developing organism from the time of fertilization until significant differentiation has occurred, when the organism becomes known as a fetus."
[Cloning Human Beings. Report and Recommendations of the National Bioethics Advisory Commission. Rockville, MD: GPO, 1997, Appendix-2.]



"The development of a human being begins with fertilization, a process by which two highly specialized cells, the spermatozoon from the male and the oocyte from the female, unite to give rise to a new organism, the zygote."
[Langman, Jan. Medical Embryology. 3rd edition. Baltimore: Williams and Wilkins, 1975, p. 3]

"Embryo: The developing individual between the union of the germ cells and the completion of the organs which characterize its body when it becomes a separate organism.... At the moment the sperm cell of the human male meets the ovum of the female and the union results in a fertilized ovum (zygote), a new life has begun.... The term embryo covers the several stages of early development from conception to the ninth or tenth week of life."
[Considine, Douglas (ed.). Van Nostrand's Scientific Encyclopedia. 5th edition. New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold Company, 1976, p. 943]

"The development of a human begins with fertilization, a process by which the spermatozoon from the male and the oocyte from the female unite to give rise to a new organism, the zygote."
[Sadler, T.W. Langman's Medical Embryology. 7th edition. Baltimore: Williams & Wilkins 1995, p. 3]

"The question came up of what is an embryo, when does an embryo exist, when does it occur. I think, as you know, that in development, life is a continuum.... But I think one of the useful definitions that has come out, especially from Germany, has been the stage at which these two nuclei [from sperm and egg] come together and the membranes between the two break down."
[Jonathan Van Blerkom of University of Colorado, expert witness on human embryology before the NIH Human Embryo Research Panel -- Panel Transcript, February 2, 1994, p. 63]


"Zygote. This cell, formed by the union of an ovum and a sperm (Gr. zyg tos, yoked together), represents the beginning of a human being. The common expression 'fertilized ovum' refers to the zygote."
[Moore, Keith L. and Persaud, T.V.N. Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology and Birth Defects. 4th edition. Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Company, 1993, p. 1]


"The chromosomes of the oocyte and sperm are...respectively enclosed within female and male pronuclei. These pronuclei fuse with each other to produce the single, diploid, 2N nucleus of the fertilized zygote. This moment of zygote formation may be taken as the beginning or zero time point of embryonic development."
[Larsen, William J. Human Embryology. 2nd edition. New York: Churchill Livingstone, 1997, p. 17]

"Although life is a continuous process, fertilization is a critical landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new, genetically distinct human organism is thereby formed.... The combination of 23 chromosomes present in each pronucleus results in 46 chromosomes in the zygote. Thus the diploid number is restored and the embryonic genome is formed. The embryo now exists as a genetic unity."

[O'Rahilly, Ronan and Müller, Fabiola. Human Embryology & Teratology. 2nd edition. New York: Wiley-Liss, 1996, pp. 8, 29. This textbook lists "pre-embryo" among "discarded and replaced terms" in modern embryology, describing it as "ill-defined and inaccurate" (p. 12}]

"Almost all higher animals start their lives from a single cell, the fertilized ovum (zygote)... The time of fertilization represents the starting point in the life history, or ontogeny, of the individual."
[Carlson, Bruce M. Patten's Foundations of Embryology. 6th edition. New York: McGraw-Hill, 1996, p. 3]


None of these were from a pro-life website but from scientific sources..medical textbooks and periodicals.

 

http://www.epm.org/resources/2010/Mar/8/scientists-attest-life-beginning-conception/


Some of the world’s most prominent scientists and physicians testified to a U.S. Senate committee that human life begins at conception:

A United States Senate Judiciary Subcommittee invited experts to testify on the question of when life begins. All of the quotes from the following experts come directly from the official government record of their testimony.1

1 Report, Subcommittee on Separation of Powers to Senate Judiciary Committee S-158, 97th Congress, 1st Session 1981.

2Landrum Shettles and David Rorvik, Rites of Life: The Scientific Evidence of Life Before Birth (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan Publishing House, 1983), 113.

3 Ashley Montague, Life Before Birth (New York: Signet Books, 1977), vi.

4Bernard N. Nathanson, “Deeper into Abortion,” New England Journal of Medicine 291 (1974): 1189Ð90.

5Bernard Nathanson, Aborting America (Garden City, NY: Doubleday, 1979).

6Shettles and Rorvik, Rites of Life, 103.

7John C. Willke, Abortion Questions and Answers (Cincinnati, OH: Hayes Publishing, 198, 42.

8Report, Subcommittee on Separation of Powers to Senate Judiciary Committee S-158, 97th Congress, 1st Session 1981, 7.

 

They are all from pro life websites and all quotes have been taken out of context.

 

THAT SIMPLY IS NOT TRUE..AND YOU HAVE PROVIDED NO EVIDENCE OF THAT. Most of the quotes on when life starts were taken from TEXTBOOKS…MEDICAL ONES. Did you personally check every one?

I gave books…I gave the Senate Judiciary report number….they are all right on target.

Find me some credible sites where scientists say life does not start at conception.

 

http://biology.franklincollege.edu/Bioweb/Biology/course_p/bioethics/When does human life begin.pdf

This is an article from an online developmental biology text.

 

This is nothing scientific. There were contributors from religion (we should keep that out of the discussion altogether) philosophers and historians…but where are the links to scientists…? What this article concentrated on historical views. What does Sparta or the Romans have to do with it?

What does science say about life today?

Not religion, not historians…philosophers….etc.

SCIENCE…….

 

The thing is you can bring up articles about abortion from every angle and direction….but you can't argue with science…..it says life starts at conception.
You want science to say the opposite…in order to validate your position…and you can look till the cows come home its not going to happen.

So you will have to wrestle with that one….because science is on the side of life…not yours.

 

You are absolutely correct. They cannot argue with that fact, so they sqwawk about back alley abortions harming young women, and they sqwawk about "women's rights", but it is all a smoke screen. These are truly dispicable people who know that abortion is the slaughtering of human beings yet they promote it anyway!

 

Science says life begins at conception? No, the Catholic Church and their 'scientists' think life begins at conception. It doesn't.

 

What do you not understand about this?

Again, this is about "Current Scientific Views of When Human Life Begins."

 

You are simply ignorant of this entire subject….not running but just can't engage with someone who does not get it. Go get educated…

This has nothing…NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIGION….

 

Go get educated…..

 

Right back at you ignorant one!

 

So 'current' views of when life begins is irrelevant and only your sources matter?