Atheits..Pledge your allegiance to God and the United States of America!

Yet our Founders made it clear to seperate the government from that same religion.

 

Yeah... thanks Eisenhower.

Way to alienate people who don't believe the same thing as you... way to get the pledge removed from public schools. Good thinking. Way to boost national pride.

::Godzilla facepalm::

 

The Founders did not want a State Church (ie 'Church of the United States'). This does not mean that basic morals and values were cast aside. After all, most of the Founders were the products of a Judeo Christian upbringing. One can be brought up with certain religious morals and values and still recognize the right of others not to believe YOUR dogma. However morals and values are not dogma.

 

So it is appropriately Christian to keep slaves?

 

No and we fought a Civil War over it because the majority did not believe in slavery.

 

But clearly it must be a Judeo-Christian value because its one of the things our country was founded on?

Is depriving women and non-landowners the vote a Judeo-Christian value?

 

Actually, the Founders decried slavery. Even Thomas Jefferson who had slaves and a slave mistress questioned himself. Slavery was the 'elephant in the room' during those days because it was so closely tied to the economy and the South threatened to break away because of the majority's bent on eliminating slavery. Read your history.

Again, you pick on things that have been fought over and won. I am not here to say human beings are perfect I am merely pointing out that this country was FOUNDED on Judeo Christian morals and values.

The fact that folks did not follow those morals and values 100% of the time speaks to the imperfection of humans not of their goals or beliefs.

Without an over-arching desire toward freedom and equality we would still have slavery and women would still be deprived of their rights. Like many places in the ME and Africa still are today, mostly where Judeo Christian morals and values are absent.

 

Sorry, that is NOT the version of the Pledge that I learned, when I learned it in 1952, the phrase "under god" was not included, and I still say it the way it was written, without the religious bigotry added.

 

You see, a pledge is just a pledge. You aren't a bad person if you say the God part and don't believe or follow it. And contrary to popular belief, it only means something if you let it mean something, it's not some binding spell from Harry Potter :3

 

Did I create another profile and post this?

Historically a pledge is binding. As an example, a samurai would die for a sworn oath. And historically, those type of people did believe in magic, as many people today believe in magic. Which is why it is so important for them that we say God in the pledge. The problem I have is forcing patriotism with the nonfactual belief in magic. That's what is known as Totalitarianism.

 

Wrong. The Civil War was not fought over slavery, and the Christians of the time had no problem justifying slavery. Lincoln's decision to make slavery an issue was a way to keep the British from supporting the South, however.

 

It's also a later addition.

http://oldtimeislands.org/pledge/pledge.htm
In 1954, Congress after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, added the words, 'under God,' to the Pledge. The Pledge was now both a patriotic oath and a public prayer.

I certainly don't go in for any "public prayer," and anyone who tells me I need to do so in order to be American can p*** off.

 

Like any of that hurts anyone. Let the morons have their sky fairy. There was never any hope for anyone who would believe that crap into adulthood. NO HOPE for these people. If your kids are going to become some of those people, there was never any hope for them to begin with.

I'm an atheist and I take my two year old son to church every Sunday. I figured out the delusion while I was a child in Sunday School. If he is ever going to get it, it won't matter if he goes to church, hears the pledge, or sees God on the money. If he's not, then he's better off being a Christian since he apparently won't be super intelligent.

 

Err, you can impact that by teaching him critical thinking skills, etc.

 

Very true. My point is that the little tricks religionists use to perpetuate their religion only work on each other.

 

The founding fathers weren't Christian in the traditional sense; they were deists and men of the Enlightenment; they were secularists. Their ethics were not derived from the Bible, and in fact more than one of them attacked the Bible and its god as monstrous. Even Jesus, according to the canonical writings, condoned slavery and never personally spoke against it.

But the founders... They were practically the secular humanists of their day.

 

Who can know or care what those simpletons believed in? If they had presented arguments to support their religious beliefs, those could be judged on their own merit. That they believed one thing or another is meaningless.

 

Which simpletons did you mean - the founding fathers? They have spoken about religion. I'm particularly fond of what Thomas Paine has written about Christianity.

 

They are simpletons through no fault of their own, but because of the limits of scientific knowledge of their time. I'm hardly concerned with what certain people believed hundreds of years ago when the world was even more ignorant than it is today.

 

Great. Then why put the "God" dogma in the pledge? Superfluous and out of context.

The irony of the devout supporting the pledge with its 1950's addition of God is that what they are pledging allegiance to isn't Him, it is to the state. They are holding the country up as where their devotion lies. God, being as jealous as He is reported to be in scripture, must be taking offense at these hyper-patriotic deserters. Not only announcing their allegiance to something other than Him, but to an idol, a flag.

 

Epic thread. One of my bests

 

14 months in duration but only 47 replies including this one.

Hmmmmmm?????

 

Probably safest not to actually read it.

 

That's not what "simpleton" means, but rather, it's related to a lack of intelligence. Intelligence is also independent of knowledge. The founding fathers certainly did not possess our modern knowledge, but they were inarguably extremely intelligent.

Personally, I consider the foresight into the separation of church and state to be one of their greatest accomplishments.

 

Does it occur to anyone else that when the OP can't even spell correctly in the title of their thread that their credibility is compromised from the start?