The Republicans gave it their best shot . . .

you're lying again

 

How are you going to raise taxes on people who already can't afford to live on what they're earning? People who already get food stamps or other benefits because their employers continue to lower their pay and benefits, not to mention their hours.

I just see a slowly dying, horribly broken economy that will eventually succumb to the its debt cancer.

 

You don't know what you're talking about.

 

don't you get tired of being a parrot?

 

Stop projecting.

 

evidently you don't get tired of being a parrot

 

You don't know what you're talking about. Stop projecting.

 

My point exactly, the only way to fix the mess is to drastically cut govt spending. it may be painful, but its the only way.

 

that might cause a complete, debilitating crash and it's certainly not the only way

 

Wait just a minute--------we are borrowing 46 cents of every dollar the govt is spending----------let that sink in for a minute




We are only paying interest on our ever growing debt, and borrowing money to pay the interest-----------let that one sink in too


Now, what fix other than cutting govt spending will cure that mess?

 

slow, gradual cuts work better than drastic ones

the best way would be to get the economy going strong

but, with the republicans doing everything they can to obstruct that, it might be difficult

 

Ok, as long as the cuts result in a balanced budget in a relatively short time---5 years or so. I should probably have said 'significant' rather than 'drastic'.

what has been offered up by obama is neither significant or drastic.

 

just admit you don't know any more about economics than you do about ayn rand

 

sorry, little buddy, but my knowledge of both is vastly superior to yours, such has been demonstrated many times on this forum. Your economic knowledge reminds me of the knowledge of one of the raw oysters that I ate last night.

But thats OK, hang around and I will continue to do my best to further your education.

 

that's funny considering you didn't know that real gdp is adjusted for inflation

or that ayn rand asserted that selfishness was a virtue and altruism was wrongheaded

 

I was never in on the GDP discussion, that was someone else. I am quite familiar with the definitions relative to GDP

You are wrong on Rand. Maybe you should read Atlas Shrugged, or reread it if you already have. Her message is quite clear. I do agree that her writing is difficult and sometimes boring, but the message is there and is very clear.

LIving with your own welfare as your primary goal is not selfish. Stealing from one man and giving to another is not altruism.

 

yes you were, you defended what dudeman said

maybe you should just admit you don't know what you're talking about

 

It's the only way to speed up the total destruction of not only our economy but of the nation.
Why are the conservatives so hell bent on turning this into a 3rd world nation?
Your spending cuts are being done in Europe right now, they didn't work.
Why would they work here?

 

If you agree with it, why don't YOU help?

 

Complete mind death. The spending cuts in Europe haven't worked. Ludicrous.

Liberalism has had decades to cause Europe's problems and austerity has has just a couple of years to fix the problems. Meanwhile the entitlement culture built by liberals is fighting austerity all the way. It is NOT conservatives that are burning, and looting, and KILLING, in Europe to save their freebies, it is liberals. The liberal mantra, "the end justifies the means."

Austerity is not some new idea being tried in Europe. Liberalism tried all the entitlement ideas that don't work. Austerity is in place in Europe because they have nothing left to give away.

Some European countries have debt to GDP ratios that exceed 1000%. They can no longer avoid reality, and austerity IS reality.

Before Democrats took over Congress and then the WH, WE had debt to GDP ratios nearing 70%. And that was considered dangerous. Now in 6 horrible years of malfeasance and fiscal irresponsibility, we have a debt to GDP ratio over 100%. The future has been laid out for us by Europe. Do we have to be so incredibly stupid as to have a debt 50 times or 100 times our GDP before we realize this cannot continue?

And we don't need MASSIVE cuts in govt spending. Nor do we need to emasculate Defense or Medicare or Welfare, or Education.

We only have to reduce spending, JUST A LITTLE, across the board.

Just a 2% reduction in spending would work WONDERS. No dept singled out, no target of opportunity, every dept gets a budget of 98% of last year. And we do that each year until revenue exceeds spending, INCLUDING INTEREST.

Spending 2012,
$3,796 TRILLION
2013, LESS 2%,
$3,720. TRILLION
2014,
$3,646 TRILLION
2015,
$3,573 TRILLION
2016,
$3,501 TRILLION
2017,
$3,431 TRILLION
2018,
$3.363 TRILLION
2019,
$3,296 TRILLION
2020,
$3,230 TRILLION

And if revenue increased by only 3% (WEAK) in 2020 our revenue would be $3,128 trillion without any tax increases on anyone. But since obama got his $60 billion per year rate increase, add that in and we have revenue of $3,608 trillion. Or a SURPLUS of $378 billion.

And the total cuts across the board, 15%, spread over 8 years.

 

I don't know about all of Europe, but Greece got into it's predicament by letting its shipping magnates and other billionaires get by without paying taxes. Sounds sorta familiar to me, by golly.

 

If you looked at facts instead of erroneous propaganda, you'd see that there is no familiarity at all.

FY 2010

Total Adjusted Gross income, ALL taxpayers. $8,039,779,000,000.00

Total income taxes paid:

$949,144,000,000.00 (11.8%) of total personal incomes.

Top 10% of incomes paid:

$670,319,000,000.00 (70.6%) of total taxes paid, and 18.5% of their income.

OTHER 90% of INCOME EARNERS paid:

$278,825,000,000.00-$59,000,000,000.00 in EITC they received, net $219,825,000,000.00 (23.2%) The "OTHER" 90% of income earners received 54.8% of the total taxable personable income of the USA and paid 23.2% of the income taxes. 4.9% of their income. FOUR.NINE%!
The top 10% received 45.2% of the total taxable personal income of the USA, and paid 70.6% of the total personal income taxes.

So, NO what happened in Greece, if it did happen, does NOT sound like what happens here.

The rich not only pay their fair share, they CARRY the rest of the nation. Money, jobs, production, food, taxes, they carry the rest of the nation on their backs.

 

you have it backwards

most of the money the rich make comes from everyone else

 

There is no fallacy more stupid than 'believing' money is a finite amount. No one has to take a penny from anyone else to become rich. In fact, the rich become richer by spending money, not by taking money. Anyone dumb enough to believe the stupid idea that the rich become rich by TAKING is destined to remain poor forever. The rich become rich by MAKING money grow, not by taking it. Today we have individuals and many corporations that are worth more than all the money there was 50 years ago. If we took instead of making money, we'd have run out of money years ago. Before anyone on this forum was born.
When I was in high school [long, long, ago] $100.00 per week was considered GOOD pay, HI pay. Today minimum wages pay 3 times that. Did the rich forget to take some money? That's not like the rich is it?

 

doesn't all that spinning make you dizzy

who said anything about taking or finite money?