What happens after death?

I disagree. To me the Copenhagen Interpretation was a bunch of fancy sounding gobbledy gook that when translated into English meant "We don't have a fricking clue, so we're just going to ignore it and move on."

Basically, the idea states that nothing materially exist until some Observer recognizes it.

For the event to have been witnessed, it would have required some conscious observer. For it to have been calculated, and the probabilistic results evolved unobserved (and thus uncollapsed) until such time as a consciousness could be inserted into the simulation is the more likely explanation. Kind of like if you leave "The Sims" running on your computer, but turn off the monitor, only billions of times more complex obviously.

They didn't need to be observed until simulated life sufficiently complex to host a consciousness evolved. Only at that point did all of the probabilities collapse. Imagine for a moment that we are in fact the only life in the galaxy. I don't believe that for a nano-second, but for the purposes of the example I'm about to give, assume it to be the case. What that means is the galaxy's we viewed in the Hubble Ultra Deep Field image had never been observed by a consciousness until we recently did so. Which means they had never before been rendered, even though they "existed" 10 or more billion years ago. Which means it wasn't until our present day observation were the probable galaxies collapsed into actual, "real" ones. But now that they have been, because that information is widespread, they will not change.

 

Its OK...
A lot of lay men do not understand the Copenhagen Interpretation.

What is strange in your case is that you already said you, yourself, came to Bohr's same conclusion, "nothing materially exists until it has been observed."

It is you, yourself, who are supported by the Schrodinger's famous "Cat-in-the-Box-Experiment" which logically concludes that until the door of the box is opened, the probability that the cat died from the poisons does not "materialize" until the observer looks.

 

Of course.
We are real, and so is the Universe.

This MEANS that there is a God who observed the Cosmos at the moment of the Big Bang just so that it would materialize by nature of His OBSERVATION of it.

It remianed real thereafter, and is a witness to Him, which cries out, "I am."

 

No.

Science merely tells us that The Law of Probablity is at work, and the essence of it requires the Collapse of the Wave Function as the next frame of Reality unfolds evermore.

Once this hapenes, that Reality is in stone, established, and fact-filled as Truth in its wake.

It is this Truth which is the blessing of the observer who created the Reality initially, since Truth is our savior since with it, we can cope and adapt to the ever unfolding next frame to come of Reality.

 

I don't ascribe to MWT. There's what coulda happened, what did happen, and what didn't happen. Though I do think during our studies in between lives we can go to inflection points and replay scenarios. What if I had gone to this school instead of that one. What if, that night I got drunk and hit my spouse I had gone to bed early instead. Though potentially instructive, you would be the only conscious entity in such roleplays, ergo they're only what "probably" would have happened, because all the other "players" are NPC's.

No, they mean other dimensions. As an example, I chose to respond to your message. Under MWT, there is a parallel universe created by that decision in which I chose not to, and another version of me is doing something else. My research tends to discredit this idea.

You have a very different idea of "God" than do I. I don't even use that word, except in instances where I must in order to be understood. I use the word Source. To you, "God" is an entity. A personality. To me, it is simply All that is, and we, our consciousness, are just little tiny pieces of the great consciousness, which is really the only thing that exists. Everything else is an illusion created as learning labs for us, to learn, grow, and experience.

 

I prefer Schrodinger's Coin, for a cat is, itself, conscious. But a coin in a closed box is heads, tails, and on it's edge, simultaneously, until observed.

 

A funeral, heirs quibbling over who gets what ... the usual. But the upside is, you won't be around to see it.

 

What possible reasoning compels someone to explain advanced scientific observation and the wonders of exploration of the unknown with something even less understood and even more unlikely.

It's like claiming Unicorns were made by Fairies.

 

Observation is not required. The inside of my refrigerator is unobserved at the present moment. Yet, when I go open it, it's going to look a lot like the last time I checked. But what if there are only 5 cans of Coke instead of the 6 I thought were there. Bad memory, or a glitch in the matrix? Who's to say.

 

Except for the "life" thing, such as mold, bacteria, germs, not to mention chemical processes like alcohol/fermentation ...

 

First, iut was you who propsed the Copenhagen Interpretation by stating that nothing exists until it is observed.

THAT is the Copenhagen Intepretation.

And, that interpretation implies an initial observer to the Creation which seems to correspond to the God who, by such observation, gave the cosmos a beginning.

 

Here you agree with what the Copenhagen Interpretion says.
The electron doesn't exist until it is observed.

All I am saying is that, carried out to the natutal conclusion, in the beginning the Elemental particles of the Big Bang had to have had an Observer in order that "it is rendered (real)."

 

Father Guido Sarducci explained it best. He said you slide down a long black tube toward a bright light at the end. When you get there, you'll know whether you're in heaven or hell because, in hell, the dogs can whistle.

 

There need not have been an observer at the Big Bang. The probabilities of what transpired could have been a pure calculation for millions, even billions of years until the system matured to the point in which it could support life. Not to mention that this is not the only universe, it's not.

 

What ever gave you that idea? The coin is either heads, tails or on edge, and observation confims it. Just because you don't see something doesn't mean it isn't there.

 

No? You sure about that? Have you followed my posts?

 

What will happen to us after our death?
O Learned and Devoted Servants of God,

Scientists and atheists feel that death is a simple phenomenon of nature like stopping of a condemned old machine. The digestive system along with the respiratory system is like the condemned battery unable to generate the current. The oxygen from the respiratory system oxidizes the digested food in the digestive system generating the inert energy, which is supplied to different systems of the body like brain, heart, kidneys etc., The inert energy is transformed into a specific mode of work in each specific system. Such specific mode of work form of the inert energy in the brain and nervous system is called as awareness. If the generation of inert energy is stopped, the subsequent transmissions of inert energy into various modes of work are also stopped. If the systems are damaged due to old age, the damage of the system is also a coinciding factor. This results into the natural old age death. Sometimes, some important system may meet untimely damage and the dis-function of that system may affect the function of other systems leading to untimely death.

Human body is like a factory containing various systems as machines. The long work may result in the wear and tear of the systems. Brain and nervous system is like the computer control room. The digestive system along with the respiratory system is like the power room. When the total factory like body is shut down, the death is declared. The information disk in the computerized control room is called as Jeeva or individual soul. The current from the power room is called as the Atman or Soul. When the factory is closed [death], what happens to the information panel of the computer room? The disk may lie idle in the factory along with the other systems, which are decomposed in long time. Scientists maintain this view and say that the individual soul also decomposes along with the other systems. This concept is generally expected in the natural way and there need not be any confusion.

The whole confusion started with a practical aspect that is observed in the world in almost every country i.e., the concept of rebirth of the same individual soul. When the factory is closed [death], somebody has taken away the information disk from the factory [human body] and established it in a new factory [new body]. There are several cases of rebirths with perfectly verified information of the departed souls.

How is the disk stolen from the old factory?
Who has stolen this?
Where is this disk present during the interval time?
What happened to this disk in the interval time?
These are the logical questions that arise on the observation of the proven cases of rebirth.

The scriptures of all the religions say that the individual soul goes to hell or heaven to enjoy the fruits of its deeds for sometime before it takes a new body on this earth for a rebirth.

Christianity does not agree with rebirth, but there is a version saying that Jesus also accepted the rebirth. Anyway, rebirth is a proven fact appearing before our eyes. The same individual soul takes rebirth in this world after sometime of the death. There need not be any discussion on this aspect.

The debate is only about the issues in the interval period. The Scripture says that the soul goes to hell and heaven in the interval. Now, the doubt is whether this soul goes to hell and heaven or takes rest in some place in the cosmos? Since there is no direct proof for this affair in the interval, there is a 50-50 probability. A wise man will opt for the presence of hell and heaven because there is no harm if one takes precautions to avoid the hell. Nothing is lost by these precautions if the hell is absent. But, if the hell is present due to 50-50 probability, the negligence of precautions will result in serious damage.

Regarding the proof for the existing place of hell in this infinite cosmic space, the 50-50 probability can be again applied i.e., I have not shown you the hell in this infinite space and at the same time, you have also not shown Me the absence of hell in this infinite space by taking Me up to the ending boundary of the universe. In such 50-50 probability, the wise decision will be to believe the existence of hell. If precautions are taken to avoid the hell, there is no loss even if the hell is absent. But if precautions are neglected and if the hell is really present, there is a serious damage. Therefore, the conclusion of all this scientific analysis is that the individual soul goes to hell or heaven for sometime and returns to this world for rebirth. Please note that I have not taken any mystic faith based on blind belief in this analysis and hence, all My dear friends, who are scientists and atheists, will adopt this view.
Supporting Incidents

To give support to the above story of the interval, there are some experiences of some people, who went up to the verge of death and came back. They said that they have travelled long distance in darkness and then light appeared in which a divine personality was seen. You may say that these are poetic fabrications of these people. It is again a 50-50 probability. It is better to accept their experiences, which coincide with the concept in the above scientific analysis.

Another supporting point is that the human incarnation, which has proven the existence of unimaginable power through unimaginable events (miracles) also says that the concept of the scripture is correct. You must give validity to His saying, since the unimaginable event was proven by Him though demonstration. You may do away with the human incarnation by saying that the miracles are magic. However, the acceptance of the possibility of the scriptural concept already stands firm in the above scientific analysis.

Hence, there is no harm in accepting the experiences of some people, scriptural descriptions and the messages of human incarnations supporting the scriptures, which are in line with the 50-50 probability presented in the above scientific analysis. Therefore, the final conclusion is that everyone, be it an atheist or a theist, should accept the rebirth, hell and heaven declared by the scripture and follow all the scriptural precautions carefully in this world. This concept rises in every mind in the old age since the death is near and hence, this concept is clarified removing all confusions.

 

YOU don't understand the Copenhagen Interpretation.

First, it pertains to probability models and secondly those models are in regard to quantum physics, measuring a single particle/wave.

This aint, "if a tree in the forest farts does anyboy hear it?"

 

That is a philosophical statement and not a scientific statement. We knew that atoms existed long before we were capable of actually observing them. We know that black holes exist even though we can't see them. We can see the effects of the black hole and can calculate it's mass without ever actually being able to observe it directly. The very laws of physics prevent us from observing a black hole directly but we have confrimed the existance of black holes by observing the stars in orbit around them.

We have never observed anything that even remotely suggests life after death or the presence of a super-natural entity. No "tests" for either have even been proposed by anyone, ever.

 

Yet do atoms really exist as we observe them? We are still trying to break down parts of atoms to see what they are made of. We really don't know all that much about them other than the result of their actions.

Exactly my point about atoms.

By 'life after death' I assume you mean that one's consciousness continues but, consciousness is a human construct meant to explain our sentient actions. I do not limit my thinking to that because 'life after death' may be as simple as the impression one leaves with fellow human beings.

 

Yes, with electron microscopes we've been able to actually see atoms.

http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2008/jul/16/electron-microscope-sees-single-hydrogen-atoms

Subatomic particles are a different matter. It is the difference between seeing a "ship" and seeing "every rivet" used to build a ship. With the naked eye I can see a mountain from a distance but I can't see the rocks that make up the mountain. Black holes are completely different because we will never be able to actually see a black hole because of the laws of physics.

 

Kinda unpleasant for the living, since the bowel-evactution thing, not the mention the smell of decay, can be kinda yucky.

 

Short-termist! Think of pushing up the daisies, or causing good healthy dusting!

 

I'll go with daisies since I have no idea what good healthy dusting is and thus it makes thinking about that more difficult.

Thanks for the suggestions all the same.

 

Then explain how a single electron appears to exist in two places and once and subsequently interfere with itself?

We have plenty of anecdotal info, thousands of consistent NDE tales, thousands of consistent past and in between life regressions, children who remember details of past lives that upon investigation prove to be accurate, not to mention what you can experience on your own by simply learning meditation.

But forget all that, I have one simple question. Assume, for the sake of argument that there is in fact life after life. I get you don't believe in it, that's cool, but answer this question as though it does, in fact, exist. What sort of test would you imagine might prove it?