Atheists create thousands of Christian martyrs during French Revolution

Atheist sects... *L*

History has shown that theists have been far better at making "martyrs" than atheists have been.

 

I'm glad you repudiate the evil that is Communism, but there's no denying that major atheist sects and key atheist thinkers like Nietzsche and Lenin (and relatively minor figures like Sam Harris) are detestable.

 

There are of course detestable figures in any group of people of any appreciable size, communists, capitalists, atheists, christians, you name it, no point denying that.

But you're mis-using the word 'sect'.

 

You never answered my question: Aren't martyrs considered saints?

Isn't it a good thing to die for your god? (or, isn't that what you were told?)

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I think he means "sex'....atheists have lots of sex...much more than christians...makes them hate us...

 

Atheism has always been in the world. The fact that Christianity dominated in a world of slaughter kind of counters your argument. Christianity was first militarized by Constantine in Rome, most infamously, at least. He used it to conquer, and that's when the religion truly flourished, when it became state-endorsed. Mostly through Roman Imperialism, Christianity was spread throughout Europe. European monarchs, ever quick to emulate Rome, also took religion and militarized it, using it as the means of social order and the reason for military conquest and continued to butcher each other for a few more centuries- each checking with the Pope for proper authority and/or funding. It blessed, funded, and profited from Britain's Imperialism in the East Indies and it's genocide in Australia. It blessed, funded, and profited from European Imperialism into the Americans, as well as the Slave trade of Africa.

You are absolutely right. It is a matter of time and scale. Compared to Atheism, Christianity has been a direct or indirect force behind global atrocity and suffering far more than atheism has.

Stalin's action's were not motivated by Atheism, no matter how desperately theists try to attribute them to it.

 

Atheist must have been re-defined while I slept.

Atheism = Not Christian

 

Really deep.

 

Wrong.

Some quotes from sociologist Rodney Stark:

quote: Constantine didn’t cause the triumph of Christianity. He rode off it.

quote: But what Christians did was take care of each other. Their apartments were as smoky as the pagan apartments, since neither had chimneys, and they were cold and wet and they stank. But Christians loved one another, and when they got sick they took care of each other. Someone brought you soup. You can do an enormous amount to relieve those miseries if you look after each other.

quote: Christian women had tremendous advantages compared to the woman next door, who was like them in every way except that she was a pagan. First, when did you get married? Most pagan girls were married off around age 11, before puberty, and they had nothing to say about it, and they got married to some 35-year-old guy. Christian women had plenty of say in the matter and tended to marry around age 18.
Abortion was a huge killer of women in this period, but Christian women were spared that. And infanticide—pagans killed little girls left and right. We’ve unearthed sewers clogged with the bones of newborn girls. But Christians prohibited this. Consequently, the sex ratio changed and Christians didn’t have the enormous shortage of women that plagued the rest of the empire.

quote: Among the pagans, you get the sense that no one took care of anyone else except in the tribal way. It’s what we’re seeing today in the Balkans—you take care of your brothers, and you kill everybody else. Christianity told the Greco-Roman world that the definition of “brother” has got to be a lot broader. There are some things you owe to any living human being.

LINK

quote about Stark's view: The author plots the most plausible curve of Christian growth from the year 40 to 300. By the time of Constantine, Christianity had become a considerable force, with growth patterns very similar to those of modern-day successful religious movements.

quote: The oversupply of women in Christian communities--due partly to the respect and protection they received--led to intermarriages with pagans, hence more conversions, and to a high fertility rate. Stark points out, too, the role played by selflessness and faith. Amidst the epidemics, fires, and other disasters that beleaguered Greco-Roman cities, Christian communities were a stronghold of mutual aid, which resulted in a survival rate far greater than that of the pagans.

LINK

By this time Europe was "Enlightened" and the ruling class was to a large extent dechristianized. The European establishment had read Gibbon or Jacques Hébert or later on people like Nietzsche and often hated Christianity.

 

Christianity was a scourge on humanity. It had been killing, torturing, persecuting, oppressing and stealing from people for over 1000 years.

Christian violence and murder was the rule, not the exception.

You should go read up on the history of the Church. It is a nasty evil tale and should never be allowed to happen again.

I'm sure the French Revolution went a bit far (as most all revolutions do), but they definitely had good cause. The Church was evil.

 

" Rodney Stark:... Atheism is an active faith; it says, “I believe there is no God.” But I don’t know what I believe..." So much for the "expert" on religion.

 

Feverish bigotry from an atheist fanatic. No reason to take it seriously.

Christians have opposed gladitorial combat: Telemachus: The Monk Who Ended the Coliseum Games

fought slavery: The Abolitionists
Despised and often attacked, they courageously carried the slaves' cause for thirty years. Why have these inescapably Christian men and women been forgotten?

William Wilberforce

demanded rights for Native Americans: Theodore Frelinghuysen

fought discrimination: Southern Christian Leadership Conference

supported rights for women: Woman's Christian Temperance Union

called for peace during World War I: Pope Benedict XV's Peace Note of 1 August 1917

combated the Nazis: Christian Opposition to Nazi Anti-Semitism

combated Communism: Emotional Walesa Thanks Pope For His Support Of Solidarity

Remembering Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

fought for human rights in East Timor: 2 accept Nobel Peace Prize for East Timor work

called for peace in the Mideast: Time to move on Mideast peace
Desmond Tutu and Jimmy Carter reflect on the stalled efforts to achieve peace in the Middle East in USA Today.

opposed infanticide/abortion: Priests for Life

 

Yeah, it was present in Rome and it was contending with Rome's traditional religions, but it was because of Constantine that it spread all over the continent.That's not to say that it was all over Rome either, mostly confined to the east.

Further, there's no evidence to say whether Constantine was somehow going to be defeated by Christianity or not, or that Christianity posed any sort of viable threat to Rome, that's this sociologists perspective. Constantine used that religion.

 

Thanks. I take it then that you have no issue with the rest of my post.

 

Ad Hom is not going to win the day.

First off it is absurd that you would use arguments from the modern Church. The Church is pretty good these days. This was not so in the past.

The fact that a few Christians along the way were good folks does not excuse 1000 years of murder.

Funny stuff.

Right up to WWII the Church hated the Jews. Catholic Bishops participated in the genocide of hundreds of thousands of Jewish and Orthadox Serbs.
Then the Pope even helped the Pavilic escape dressed as a priest after the war.

The Church was playing both sides of the fence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_clergy_involvement_with_the_Ustaše


combated Communism: Emotional Walesa Thanks Pope For His Support Of Solidarity

Remembering Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

fought for human rights in East Timor: 2 accept Nobel Peace Prize for East Timor work

called for peace in the Mideast: Time to move on Mideast peace
Desmond Tutu and Jimmy Carter reflect on the stalled efforts to achieve peace in the Middle East in USA Today.

opposed infanticide/abortion: Priests for Life

 

Ad Hom is not going to win the day.

First off it is absurd that you would use arguments from the modern Church. The Church is pretty good these days. This was not so in the past.

The fact that a few Christians along the way were good folks does not excuse 1000 years of murder.

Funny stuff.

Right up to WWII the Church hated the Jews. Catholic Bishops participated in the genocide of hundreds of thousands of Jewish and Orthadox Serbs.
Then the Pope even helped the Pavilic escape dressed as a priest after the war.

The Church was playing both sides of the fence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_clergy_involvement_with_the_Ustaše

 

I'm glad you admit this.

I'm afraid, however, that the rest of your post can only have been written by a fanatic uninterested in the truth.

Regarding Justinian you quote Vlassis Rassias, an unhinged Greek quasi-fascist who wants to "exterminate" Christianity.

Do you feel ridiculous yet? Because you should.

If you ever stray from your anti-Christian hate sites you'll discover that Justinian's Digest speaks out against torture: "The torture (quaestio) is not to be regarded as wholly deserving or wholly undeserving of confidence; indeed, it is untrustworthy, perilous and deceptive. For most men, by patience or the severity of the torture, come so to despise the torture that the truth cannot be elicited from them; others are so impatient that they will lie in any direction rather than suffer the torture; so it happens that they depose to contradictions and accuse not only themselves but others."

Do you deny that the Pope saved 100s of 1000s of Jews?
Do you deny that Milosevic, an atheist, killed 100s of 1000s?

quote about Archbishop Alojzij Stepinac: "The Associated Press reported that “by 1942 Stepinac had become a harsh critic” of the Nazi puppet regime, condemning its “genocidal policies, which killed tens of thousands of Serbs, Jews, Gypsies, and Croats.” He thereby earned the enmity of the Croatian dictator, Ante Pavelic. (When Pavelic traveled to Rome, he was greatly angered because he was denied the diplomatic audience he had wanted.) On October 13, 1946, when the postwar Communist authorities tried to concoct a case against Archbishop Stepinac, American Jewish leader Louis Braier stated:

This great man of the Church has been accused of being a Nazi collaborator. We, the Jews, deny it. He is one of the few men who rose in Europe against the Nazi tyranny precisely at the moment when it was most dangerous. He spoke openly and fearlessly against the racial laws. After His Holiness, Pius XII, he was the greatest defender of the persecuted Jews in Europe."

LINK

Does the fact that a few atheists along the way were good folks excuse mass murder by atheists?

Christians who commit evil acts are not acting in the name of or under the guidance of Jesus, who called for kindness and forgiveness. Atheists who commit crimes act in the name of and under the guidance of bloodthirsty atheist leaders like Lenin and Nietzsche and (on a lower level) Hitchens and Harris.

 

Atheists torturing and killing:

Torture memoirs revive horrors of communism

Chinese Police Proudly Record Their Torture of Christians

New Reports Tell of Executions, Torture of Christians in North Korea
New reports from former North Korean eye-witnesses indicate that the totalitarian government tortures, executes Christians and people related to the faith.

50,000 Christians tortured and abused in North Korean prisons

This human rights abuse was championed by intolerant atheist leaders like Lenin. It should be clear by now that the torturers and killers were acting in the name of their atheist ideology.

 

LOL Ridiculous is trying to apologise for the 1000 of years of Church atrocities. There are literally thousands of them.

If you have evidence to suggest the passage is false .. then present it. Claiming that the information came from someone who is not a fanatical Christian is nothing but Ad Hom.


As for Torture ... Christians loved to torture and devised some of the most nasty methods known to man.

The Pope himself issued a Papal Bull Sanctioning torture.

What difference does it make how many Jews the Pope saved if he is condoning genocide through the back door.

Of course once the tide of the war turned the Church wanted to be on the right side.

Not sure where you got that Milosevic was an atheist (His father was an Orthadox Priest) regardless.. what difference does it make a this has nothing to do with the Church condoning genocide in WWII. (other than payback I suppose)

Those Catholics love to persecute Jews in the past, and anyone else who disagreed with them.

How many examples of Church atrocities would you like ? 10, 20 ? 50 perhaps 5 per century over 10 centuries ?

 

Here is a list of a hundred or so example of the church persecuting, killing, or stealing from Jews over the centuries. ( A scant few on the list are perpetrated by folks other than the Church but most are by the Church)

http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/HistoryJewishPersecution/

Claiming "Some other bad person who happened not to be killing in the name of God did it too" does not in any way shape or form excuse what the Church did.

Just as what China, Hitler and Stalin did was evil ... so was what the Church did.

We do not want a repeat of Nazism and we do not want a repeat of the Christian hegemony that existed for over 1000 years.

 

The atheists were the Protestants, who had been fighting the Catholics for religious freedom for centuries. So when they got the upper hand they chopped of some Catholic heads. It may not have been the Christian thing to do but the Catholics didn't think that the Protestants were Christians anyway. So maybe they were right.

 

The New Testament approves of torture. So all acts of torture by Christians is sanctioned by religious doctrine.

As it says in 1 Corinthians 5:5 (CEB) = At that time we need to hand this man over to Satan to destroy his human weakness so that his spirit might be saved on the day of the Lord.

In other words, kill the sinner if necessary. It will save his soul because he will no longer be capable of sinning. That's the theory that Jesus spoke about in the Sermon on the Mount involving cutting off offending body parts to save one's soul.

 

Again....it would seem certain individuals have decided to re-define the term Atheist to mean everyone non-Christian, and considering most Christians do not consider most other Christians to be actual Christians.....I am beginning to believe there are one hell of alot of Atheists in this world.

 

Even the Pope didn't believe in it.

 

A cleansing of the soul by fire was a favorite Church apology for torturing those who had beliefs or expressed views that the Church disagreed with.

In other cases when the Church was a little short on cash it would make something up against some rich landowner in order to steal his property and possessions.

The Bishops and Priests really started to enjoy torturing people. They invented all kinds of ways to prolong death as long a possible while maximizing the pain and horror.

They often located these torture chambers in the basement of the Church so that they could have their little torture parties.


Such was the bloodlust of the mid-evil Popes that would not think twice about killing innocent Christians so long as it rooted out the one heretic (or perceived heretic)

"Better to burn 100 innocent people than to allow one heretic to go unpunished"

http://books.google.ca/books?id=8b9...H0Q6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=catholic dungeon&f=true

 

People who were being tortured for being witches could have had some fun to ease their suffering. They should have rambled off some nasty curses on their torturers and their accusers.