What's wrong with making it mandatory to buy Health Insurance ?

Well, let's take Sweden as an example - what is different about Sweden from the U.S.??

Sweden is a homogeneous society, and has a population about equal with the city of Los Angeles. The state of California alone has 4x as many citizens as the entire country of Sweden.

Virtually everyone in Sweden is blond haired, blue eyed and in general agreement on culture, society, and governance. Last year only about 8,000 people immigrated to Sweden, so they don't have immigration and ideological issues to deal with.

On the other hand, 8,000 people immigrated to Amerika yesterday and they brought with them various ideological and cultural beliefs that are completely anathama to freedom. They are ignorant, and generally have no desire to become informed. They simply move in, carry on as they did in the country they fled from, and predictably push for the same type of leftist governance they left.

Amerikans agree on nothing, and are themselves almost as ignorant as the average immigrant. It is no wonder we are $100's of trillions in debt with the ignorant masses screaming for more.

Leftist Amerikans lament the amount of CO2 we put into the air - arguing that "we have to protect the environment for our children"; but then cheer their government on to pile ever more debt on the backs of those same children. Liberals/progressives/democrats are completely delusional and irrational - and the writing on the wall is very easy to read; yet, they see none of it.

We'll hit $23 trillion within 4 years - and liberals see nothing wrong with piling more on. As Yuri Bezmenov said about ideological subversion and psychological warfare...

"... what it basically means is, to change the perception of reality of every American to such an extent that despite the abundance of information, no one is able to come to sensible conclusions in the interests of defending themselves, their families, their community, and their country. It's a great brainwashing process that goes very slow..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlpODYhnPEo

http://www.usdebtclock.org/current-rates.html

 

Burden them...by forcing everyone to buy their product?

 

The problem with this argument is that those who choose not to buy health insurance end up making everyone else pay for their bill when they are faced with a catastrophic illness that they can't afford to pay for. Like a 28 year old guy who recklessly plays hardcore sports on the weekend to relax ends up with a broken limb that requires an ambulance, diagnostics and other potential care. Without insurance that can cost 10-30k if surgery is required for a multiple fracture. So the guy is now not only out of work, but can't pay his medical bills.

How does the health care industry recoup these losses? They can sue the guy, but if he's outta work, not going to get much from that source. Guess they have to raise rates that the rest of us. You just paid in involuntary tax to support this leach.

This is why I advocate a national health care system based on a tax similar to Social Security that is separate from the general fund. Everyone should pay into a national health care pool because at some point in your life you'll need some kind of health care, and Obamacare is a bad way to go since it keeps the worst parts of this broken system involved.

 

I have a lawyer on retainer ... and that ensures they are available when I need them, as well as some cost differences for their service.
You can purchase both insurance to handle car repairs from just about any major car insurance provider ... as well as outside firms that only handle insurance for car repairs.
I offer clients of mine "Vacation Insurance" that covers everything from natural occurrences such as bad weather ... to their inability to actually make it to the event after they had paid a deposit.

Technically ... You can purchase insurance for anything ... And against anything.
There is insurance available for employers that have the risk of an employee pool at their business winning the lottery ... and thus creating the need to acquire and train new employees.
You know ... You can even buy Insurance that will reimburse you if you lose wages due to alien abduction.

The reason people have to buy medical insurance to pay for their care is because they are not disciplined enough to save the necessary money to cover their own care.
If the average cost of medical insurance for a family of four is $20,728 annually (2012) … then that means that if the children were twins … The family will have paid $373,104 in 18 years.
The average health cost for a family of four (with at least one major illness) over the same 18 years is $249,979 (worst I could find) … which only supports the point that it would be cheaper to save the money in most cases.

Edit:
When you think about it ... You could almost afford to send one of the twins to college with $123,125 you saved.

 

Corrrect; either way your going to pay for it.

- - - Updated - - -

How do you figure you'd be treated like a child?

 

The key is "choose to buy a car you gotta own car insurance."

The problem with Obamacare isn't the specifics. The problem is that it is a huge growth of government. The problem is that we had to pass it to know what was in it. The problem is that we are still finding what is in it. The problem is that it forces people to buy certain types of insurance.

 

It wasn't the government that caused the current situation.

People like to blame our rising costs on regulation, but the real reasons behind our situation are the following:

1) the guild-like behavior of the AMA and its limits on medical instruction.

2) the various oligopolies in most local markets.

If there were more schools that actually taught medicine, and if they weren't run in a way so as to keep out most people through cost and an abusive intern system, then we'd have far more doctors. We wouldn't have to import so many from other countries.

Also, most local markets for medicine are dominated by one or two networks that keep prices high.

Granted, the third factor is the one mentioned by the OP.

A fourth factor is the increased bureaucratic cost of having multiple insurance companies provide coverage rather than just having one government provider.

 

Actually its acceptable to carry high risk insurance. You wont receive a fine for that. Its perfectly acceptable to pay for routine doctors visits out of pocket in cash. Maybe you didnt realize this.


And in a very real sense, having insurance IS also a protection for others against you. If you have an accident and get wheeled into the ER, they are going to treat the emergency situation. If you cant or wont pay, the tax payers get stuck on the hook for that. So in a very real sense, requiring people to carry at least high risk insurance IS a protection for others from you.

 

What was the reason that the media stated why it is necessary to mandate health coverage? Weren't we told that cost are so high is due to so many people using the emergency room for free healthcare? The truth is most of those people are unemployed and little to no income.

The IRS is responsible for enforcing this horrible law but it has no power to go after people that do not have to file taxes.

 

How much is that plan again? Because I pay it as if it were the better one. Let me get some of this unicorn plans that cost so little via obamacare. Surely they are sold online please find me a link. I hear all the time about how my costs are going down and care up, but I am not seeing where you sign up for that.

So for the 10% of the public that use to burden taxpayers all taxpayers now must be burdened and the taxpayers are subsidizing those people with new plans? All this plus new paperwork? Sounds like it would have been cheaper to stick with the last government plan to cover the cost of treatment people couldn't pay for.

 

Personally, I would have been just fine if they combined medicare / medicade and then dropped all the age requirements. Presto. Health care solved.

 

Except that you named two programs that are going bankrupt, have loads of fraud, and additional transaction costs.

Vouchers. Problem solved. No need for a big bureaucracy, and all the extra costs that entails. Fraud can be policed at the patient level, which makes the most sense.

 

I look at the money most doctors and insurance companies make as bordering on treason. I have no guilt in judging them on their immorality and gladly applaud Obamacare if it does, indeed, destroy our medial system as it stands now.

Doctors make too much, charge too much, and haven't really cured crap in decades. The system is rigged in their favor and if Obamacare does what I hope it does, it will eventually result in single payer and doctors will have to live with a "modest salary" decline to what England has, which is $115,000 for every $175,000 our undeserving American doctor makes.

Too many of today's rich didn't earn it - they inherited it or they manipulated the market in their favor. The rich today aren't real entrepreneurs and magnates, they are lucky. And they have the audacity to ask the already poor middle and lower class to sacrifice what they themselves don't have the compassion or desire to do.

Am I a socialist for all things ? No. Do I believe health care should not be for-profit ? You damn right I am.

 

Price fixing is the surest way to decrease supply. In medicine that means lives lost.

Go check out why we with domestic oil had oil shortages during the 70s when Japan who has to import every drop did not. (price fixing lower then what the market would deliver for)

 

Vomitous.

 

i'm the most honest liberal you'll ever meet

 

You're no liberal. You're an authoritarian, outcome seeking state collectivist who has zero respect for individual natural rights or liberties.

 

So, essentially you like Obamacare because of how awfully bad you think it is? You also seem to be willing to sacrifice lives in order to attain your goals? Have I gotten that right?

 

So basically if you get what you want Channe doctors will make less but the difference will be more than made up for by the addition of more bureaucrats to a system that is already moribund with the same.

 

It is crazy isn't it?

"Medicine, brought to you by the people who brought you the line at the social security office and 2-6 week delivery. "

What world do leftists live in?

 

1) You can choose not to own a car. Many people do. Conversely, your personal choices are irrelevant to Obamacare. You must simply obey because you have been told to do so.

2) If you're so worried about people "scamming the game," how do you feel about people on welfare who spend their government checks on shiny car rims and alcohol?

 

John for that I should probably do a separate thread. And I think I will.

 

Obamacare is a step towards single payer - it is a must. Obamacare is designed to put a financial burden on the current, corrupt, medical system that lets doctors charge insane amounts without bounding to the free market. Obamacare will also force insurance companies to lose their grip on our society - eventually, hopefully, creating a situation in which they will pool their resources into one singular insurance juggernaut of a company which will eventually need to be regulated by the government, which in turn will be a single payer.

 

Its not fair to pick favorites in the health care and drug industries and put small businesses out for the profit of supergiants giving them power over the quality of health care we all get. Its not fair to make people buy cosmetic benefits they will never need to buy the ones that they do need.

You can own a car with no insurance, you just cant use it legally on public infrastructure.

Lets talk about the bureaucrats added to the payrole of healthcare and the people who wont get a job because it will force them to lose benefits they have been convinced they need.

The fact is the ACA kills the economy and still lets people fall through the cracks while throwing a chair up against the door of social mobility. More Americans could get better insurance at a lower cost without it.

 

The biggest problem with Obamacare is that it's not single payer.