Oswald did it, Conspiracy theorists in denial and cannot accept it

Here's what conspiracy kooks get wrong on a regular basis.

*Kooks claim the Carcano model 91/38 is a crappy rifle. This is false. Of course the Carcano wasn't a mauser 98 or a Enfield, but it was still an acurate rifle that was used by the Italian army for almost 50 years.

*They falsely claim that two out of three shots couldn't have hit JFK within the 8 second time frame on the Zapruder film. This is false. Marksman from the US Army B allistics Laboratory and a 1967 CBS News Investigation. used marksman under the same parameters of the JFK assassination made those shots under 7.5 seconds.

*Conspiracy kooks just outright make up that Oswald wasn't a good enough shot to make the laughable 81 meter kill shot. Umm, Oswald was a marine qualified rifleman. He might not have been sniper material, but he still hit targets on rapid fire strings at 200-300 yards.

*Conspiracy kooks make a big deal out of the condition of the scope. Maybe it never accured to them that that the scope could have been damaged after the fact while it was handed down thru the chain of custody. The FBI used the same scope and rifle under the JFK assassination parameters with shims, and made the same shots.

* Lets assume that the scope was to damaged to use before Oswald shot JFK, conspiracy kooks forget the fact that the Carcano 91/38 still had iron sights that you could have used at 81 meters accurately.

These four basic facts destroy kook arguments every time.

 

No conspiracy expert has debunked anything after their theories have been destroyed; most experts have agreed with the single bullet theory including countless experts who have actually been involved in the investigation. It's funny how you claim that a few weren't that confident with the single bullet theory but forget to mention that most experts and members for the WC AND HSCA concluded single bullet was a fact.

now since you guys love youtube videos, enjoy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSBXW1-VGmM

abc news took a close look at the 'magic bullet' claims and debunks conspiracy theorists claims, with authority. I have yet to see any reputable news network come up with anything to counter this.

and pbs nova had this, which goes into even more detail around all the conspiracy claims and brings several experts to conduct tests and analyze the events:

Part 2. After conspiracy theories around a 'magic bullet' are hurled around, ballistic tests are performed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwvQvyQSgRk

Part 3. Continuation of extensive ballistic tests to test the single bullet theory
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU6qrsLAiuk

 

A Federal crime can only take place on Federal property?

lol!!!! so a criminal selling handguns across state lines isn't a Federal crime????

lol!!!

 

Oswald once scored rating of sharpshooter, going 48/50 and 49/50 during rapid fire whilst shooting at a stationary target 180m away. He also scored lower (marksmen) at a later point but he was more than capable of hitting a slow moving target 80m away!

of course, conspiracy theorists will ignore this and listen to any nut that just states these shots were impossible. I once saw a show where Jesse Ventura tried making the shots and claimed it was difficult and that rifle was crap.. lol but his show was about conspiracy theories! and he is a conspiracy theorist who even wrote a book on the JFK assassination. This is the problem, you have so many people who's goal is to convince others of a conspiracy, either to make a profit or just cause they believe in it.

 

No one said single bullet.

Actually the law required the autopsy be performed in Texas this makes removing the body illegalyes and that has been acknowledged.

It does not however make the autopsy at Bethesda illegal

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No source for this quote so it is irrelevant.

 

No you are not stating fact and no one has ever debunked it.

The so called single bullet was proven to be the second bullet fired by Oswald and it hit two men.

This is not magical or unusual

No one has ever proven it impossible and battlefield accounts often show similar bullet performance, even police are often warned in training of the dangers of one bullet striking two seperate victims and passing through both.

The only people to ever TRY and debunk this fact are those who deliberately lie and change the conditions of the shooting.

The most common method is to alter the seating arrangement to place Connally directly infront of Kennedy. A perfect example is the court room scene in JFK.

The fact is only by such manipulation and denial of facts can anyone claim to have debunked this fact but once the manipulations and lies are pointed out the fact still stands that the second bullet hit two men.

This is why conspiracy theorists are the real magic bullet believers they believe in lies told to them by dishonest authors and movie makers.

You have never stated a fact and instead have been consistently corrected with facts.

 

What a terrific post.

Too bad the conspiracy loons will ignore it.

All of those facts you point out have been posted here previously and they just pretend they never heard of them.

 

That's it, Connally's seating position is the most looked over fact by conspiracy kooks in the whole assassination in my opinion.

 

And if anybody question that, his Boot Camp Range Book was sold a few years ago.

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/5725882



And how well did he do at the 300 Yard Rapid Fire?



Pretty damned good actually. 5 5's, 4 4's, and a miss (if this had been me I would have been screaming for a re-check in the butts). And remember, this was with cold iron sights at a target more then 3 times the distance then the President was shot at.

His 200 Yard Slow Fire was not to bad either, 39 out of 50 possible.

 

Sorry this isn't even close to being true. Two things debunk this claim by conspiracy theorist. First of all, If you look at the Zapruder film, JFK An Gov. Connally react almost exactly at the same time within five frames of the film, which is maybe a second at completely consistent with velocity and ballistics of the round .

Next, in 1993 ABC aired JFK Beyond the Conspiracy. This was a 3-D program of the Zapruder film, which was the most complete study of the fim that took 10 Years to make, and it completely confirms the single bullet theory. I suggest you watch it.

 

I am going to re-post this again as the issue is not being able to get off the shots the issue is the IMPOSSIBILITY of the movement of the bullet.

As I have stated before....I am a person who is very familiar with what will most likely happen, can happen, could possibly happen and what usually happens as a result of a High Velocity Round impacting various materials including a Human Being.

It is entirely possible for a very well trained and practiced Sniper to have made the shots Oswald is purported to have made....but what is highly unlikely and bearing upon COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE is the after effects of the materials struck by such high velocity rounds and what the reported movement of the so called Magic Bullet did.

For those of you who have this idea that a person using that specific weapon....The rifle that was used to kill JFK was a 6.5mm Carcano type, model 91/38 rifle. It was manufactured at the Royal Arms Factory in Terni, Italy, in 1940....could not have gotten off the shots in the time passed and hit the targets.....well I can tell you........

......I COULD DO IT.

But what I could not make happen is how the bullets were reported to have moved to cause the impacted damage....that data and information IS A LIE.

Consider this....At the request of erstwhile first daughter Caroline Kennedy, her late mother’s Dallas suit won’t be on public display until the year 2103, reports the Los Angeles Times’ Faye Fiore. Until then, the National Archives and Records Administration is storing the clothes in a dark, window-less, temperature-controlled bunker at the agency’s complex in Maryland.

According to people who have seen it, the jacket was never washed and still retains the look of a brand new article of clothing -- except, of course, for the stains from the blood of the fallen president.

With a very few exceptions, virtually all of the records identified as belonging to the Kennedy Collection have been opened in part or in full. Those documents that are closed in full or in part were done so in accordance with the Kennedy Act, mentioned above. According to the Act, no record could be withheld in part or in full, without the agreement of the ARRB. The guidelines for withholding records are outlined in the provisions in Section 6 of the Act. The full report of the ARRB is available online. A copy of the Act is in Adobe Acrobat PDFAppendix C of the ARRB Report mentioned above. In all cases where the ARRB agreed to withhold a record or information in a record, they stipulated a specific release date for the document. In addition, according to Section 5(g)(2)(D) of the Act, all records in the Kennedy Collection will be opened by 2017 unless certified as justifiably closed by the President of the United States.

Five decades after the fatal shots in Dallas, thousands of pages of investigative documents remain withheld from public view.

The contents of these files are partially known — and intriguing — and conspiracy buffs are not the only ones seeking to open them.

Some serious researchers believe the off-limits files could shed valuable new light on nagging mysteries of the assassination — including what U.S. intelligence agencies knew about Lee Harvey Oswald before Nov. 22, 1963.

It turns out that several hundred of the still-classified pages concern a deceased CIA agent, George Joannides, whose activities just before the assassination have tantalized researchers for years.

“This is not about conspiracy, this is about transparency,” said Jefferson Morley, a former Washington Post reporter and author embroiled in a decade-long lawsuit against the CIA, seeking release of the closed documents. “I think the CIA should obey the law. I don’t think most people think that’s a crazy idea.”

Morley’s effort has been joined by others, including G. Robert Blakey, chief counsel for a House investigation into the JFK assassination in the 1970s.

But so far, the Joannides files and thousands more pages primarily from the CIA remain off-limits at a National Archives center in College Park, Md.

Others say the continued sealing of 50-year-old documents raises needless questions in the public’s mind and encourages conspiracy theories.

“There is no question that in various ways the CIA obfuscated, but it may be they were covering up operations that were justifiable, benign CIA operations that had absolutely nothing to do with the Kennedy assassination,” said Anthony Summers, a British author who has written about the JFK case.

“But after 50 years, there is no reason that I can think of why such operations should still be concealed,” Summers said. “By withholding Joannides material, the agency continues to encourage the public to believe they’re covering up something more sinister.”

Declassified documents show that Joannides, while based in Miami, was the CIA case officer for the anti-Castro Student Revolutionary Directorate (DRE), which clashed with Oswald in New Orleans.

Given Oswald’s support for Castro, was Joannides told to disrupt his political activities

AboveAlpha

 

You'll get nowhere.The magic bullet theorists on here constantly ignore facts that witnesses said they saw a gunman fire a rifle behind the picket fence and consider all the dallas doctors incompetent ignoring that they concluded both the head and throut wound were ENTRANCE wounds from the throut,then say the witnesses were just making things up just for attention when they told independent investigaters over the years how the warren commission altered their testimonys which is a crime itself they should have all gone to jail for.

they have the warped logic that it doesnt matter what all the dallas doctors or witnesses said or how the warren commission altered witnesses testimonys and harrassed many of them,ONLY thing that matters in their comical fantasy warped world they live in,is what the media and our corrupt governmetn instituions say is their logic.

 

Here's another point. You see Kennedy grabbing his throat here. Why is Connelly acting perfectly normal. Shouldn't he have been shot at this point?

yeah excellent point,it sure does prove they are clueless and dont know what they are talking about.

 

hate to break your heart and your ramblings but there has been overwhelimg prrof there were multiple shooters,you just close your eyes everytime we post how many witnesses saw a gunman behind the picket fence firing a rfile and that all the dallas doctors saisd the wounds to head and throut were from the FRONT. thats pure b.s that there is no proof,what there is no proof of is your ramblings that oswald did it.

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they'll never of course watch that video since it proves there was a conspiracy.

 

Sorry, but what you are saying is simply wrong. But I do appreciate you taking your time to lay out such a lengthy counter argument in a civil tone. That separates you from 99% of the posters here. But the fact remains that the shots that Oswald fired doesn't take a expert shooter to make, even with a bolt action rifle. Ballistic and live fire tests have been carried out time and time again and their results completely counter what you have stated. The fact remains the shot that hit JFK and Connally are completely consistent with Oswald's position. I spent nine years shooting in the Army, and many years hunting with a open sight bolt action rifle, and I can say without a doubt that is a target moving away from you at 9-11 mph at a distance of 81 meters not even close to being considered a hard shot to make. It's. just not.

 

Here's another fact that the conspiracy cult loves to ignore. Marquerite Oswald, which is the mother of JFK's lone assassin, Lee Harvey Oswald testified that her son told her he shot with the butt of the rifle in his left shoulder, which would make him left eye dominate. She testified thinking this would offer proof that there was no way he could have made those shots. The opposite is true, being left dominate would have made those shots easier to make.

 

As I stated....I AGREE WITH YOU. I could make these shots myself using that Italian made 6.5mm Carcano type, model 91/38 rifle.

But the Magic Bullet explanation is Hog Wash. It is the movement and path of the round that I know cannot be a fact as they had to bring in Theoretical Physicists just to prove it could happen.

And anyone familiar with Theoretic Physics will tell you that such physics make ANYTHING possible....but not necessarily probable.

The probability that the Magic Bullet theory was the actual trajectory and movement of the bullet as the bullet had to actually STOP for a period of time and then change direction in mid air and then change directional vector again and again several times.

This possibility boarders on complete impossibility.

But as I said....I am not arguing the fact that the shots could have been taken in the time required as I know I can do it myself....but as far as the Bullet Trajectory....NO WAY IN HELL!

Thank You for being civil as well. We often do not have enough Civility on this Forum as a debate is just a debate...it should NEVER become personal and people should respect another persons right to believe what they will.

AboveAlpha

 

You're right there was no magical bullet. If Connally was sitting directly in front of JFK There would have been a magic bullet needed. But, the fact is Connally wasn't sitting directly in front of Kennedy. His seat was three inches lower, and six inches to the left of Kennedy. That makes the trajectory possible.

 

Here is the problem....now I will not go into direct detail but I know what happens to a persons head when it is impacted my various types of High Velocity Rifle Rounds.

For instance...if I was using a .50 caliber semi automatic sniper rifle, the Barrett M107....and if my shot was relatively dead on center of the Human Head.....the persons ENTIRE HEAD WOULD EXPLODE like a 1/4 stick of Dynamite in a small watermelon. There just would be nothing bigger than a tooth left just a decapitated body.

Now custom rounds for such sniper rifles can be used for different purposes but the rifle used by Oswald was nothing as powerful as a .50 Cal Barrett M107.

But using that Italian made rifle I could make the shots in the time necessary but here is the thing....if I am like Oswald and I am shooting at JFK's head from behind at a slight elevation being in that building.....what happened to the skull and skin and brains of JFK after he was head shot is NOT CONSISTENT with the effects a bulett from that Italian made Rifle would have caused.

First off the head shot appears without a doubt to have come from 22.5 to 30 degrees from the right from the perspective of the Presidential Limo....and 0 or 360 degrees being straight ahead as the car drove.

JFK's head if shot from behind with that rifle would NOT have blown out the back right side of JFK's head....in fact if the shot came from behind by Oswald,,,since Oswald would have shot at an elevation the bullet even if centered on the back of JFK's head...which it was not....but if it was....would have entered the head and exploded out at JFK's JAW as the bullet was shot from an ELEVATED POSITION.

But this did not happen.

AboveAlpha

 

your assertions are TOTALLY false and based on poor or inadequate research. Let me educate you on this matter.

1. The bullet DID NOT have to change directions as you claim as it has been PROVEN that Conally wasn't directly seated in front of Kennedy, his seat was slightly more inwards and lower than JFK, FACT. He was also slightly turing to his right, as he claimed he did when he heard the first shot that missed. ABC had experts re-contstruct the entire scene with mathematical precision and it has been shown that the bullet trajectory was a straight line from the sniper's nest in the depository, through Kennedy and though Connally.

Check this abc documentary video and educate yourself. This is also what experts in both the WC and HSCA took into consideration after careful analysis. As you can see, it was a straight trajectory and this cannot be refuted
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSBXW1-VGmM

2. Another false assertion is that one bullet couldn't have done so much damage and stay intact. Well, extensive ballistic tests have been conducted whereby shots have been fired at material resembling muscle and other materials and results consistently showed that 1. the bullet yawed after initial impact and 2. the bullet remained in good condition (slightly battered) after hitting materials resembling Kennedy's neck. Why is #1 important? because the bullet entry in Connally's back wasn't that of a bullet entering head on, it was a wound consistent with a bullet that had yawed after initial impact. If you don't understand what i just stated, i'll clarify for you. When a bullet yaws, it slightly turns on it's side and no longer hits it's target head on. When a bullet hits something after it has turned sideways, it creates a different type of wound. Guess what? Connally's entry wound was consistent with this type of sideways bullet entry. This is strong evidence that the bullet had hit something before it hit Connally. Now to #2. This is also important because it has been proven during ballistic tests that a bullet can remain intact after doing damage similar to the damage sustained by Kennedy and Connally. Not only this, but the bullet wasn't exactly unscathed anyway, it was a bit mashed up and had an oval shape to it rather than being round which is also strong evidence that it had hit something on it's side. You want additional evidence? Connally had traces of lead in his body and the bullet recovered had a hole, where lead had come out. More? Ballistic tests showed that bullets hitting on their side are more prone to release lead on impact, as if it had been sqeezed from the sides. More? No other fragments were found in Connally's body that showed another bullet hit him. You want more? No fragments were found in Kennedy's neck which indicated he was hit by a bullet other than the one that hit Connally.

Here is a link of extensive ballistic tests that were performed to see if conspiracy theorist's claims had any validity to them:

PBS NOVA
Part 2. After conspiracy theories around a 'magic bullet' are hurled around, ballistic tests are performed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwvQvyQSgRk

Part 3. Continuation of extensive ballistic tests to test the single bullet theory
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU6qrsLAiuk


so stop arguing about the impossibility of the single bullet theory, conspiracy theorist's 'magic bullet' claims have been thoroughly debunked, buried deep beneath.

 

its funny how conspiracy theorists STILL think Connally was sitting directly infront of JFK, sitting on a seat that was the same level as JFK's, facing the same direction as JFK.

and they think the bullet that hit both men was pristine.

that's why they call it the "magic bullet". Because they deny the facts of the day.

 

Then please explain how a bullet shot from where Oswald was positioned at an elevated shooting position somehow was able to explode the back slightly to the right of JFK's Head and not exit at a declination and explode out a large section of JFK's Jaw or area between JFK's nose and top lip>

When a High Velocity Round of this Italian made rifle impacts a Humans head it will enter in a wound a bit larger than the round itself and exit EXPLOSIVELY.

The ONLY way the back of JFK's head could explode like it did would be from a round entering from the FRONT of his head and as well there has NEVER been an explanation for the lack of declination of a rear shot.

It is just not possible.

I am not some CONSPIRACY BUFF.....I am an extremely well trained individual who performs certain....JOBS...that allows me to know and understand as well as have vast experience in such things.

AboveAlpha

 

I am just going to hit on a few things of this post.

Personally, I do not think it should ever be on display, no more then the clothes the President was wearing or an artifact made from human skin. Myself, I see no point in this at all. However, I would have no issue if it was studied by legitimate researchers.

And a lot of those deal more with Intelligence and Cold War National Security issues then anything else.

One thing that happened that most do not think about, was that both the US and USSR toned down a lot of their antagonism for a time, afraid that this incident might trigger a World War. For ages now it has been known that a lot of high level KGB and Soviet officials made contact with the US Government, essentially turning over everything they had on Oswald. You also had every US agent and agency working full time on the other end as well. And more then likely every single Soviet communication intercept and eavesdropping even remotely related to Oswald or the Assassination became part of this as well. And these are things that our Government always keeps secret, for as long as possible.

When eventually declassified, I would bet dollars to doughnuts that the stuff that remains classified has more to do with how and who collected it then the content itself. Kind of like many researchers now suspect that Senator McCarthy had access to VENONA, which was a decoding of Soviet diplomatic codes that identified a lot of agents (like the Rosenburgs). Or in another example, MAGIC. It's role in the Battle of Midway, like the code breaking itself was a secret for over 30 years. A great many books became obsolete once this secret was revealed, and the truth behind the Battle of Midway was finally known.

 

I was sought out in my Jr. Year of High School by all Military Branches and by multiple U.S. Agencies.

I became a VERY Cold Warrior in the very early 1980's and I can tell you stories about how at the Brandenburg Gate the Stasi....The Ministry for State Security (German: Ministerium für Staatssicherheit, MfS)....Stasi Agents absolutely HATED any interference by the KGB who they considered too Strong Armed and Overt to be on hand whenever the Gate was opened to allow the very small number of Cultural Exchanges that went on back then.

All of us on all sides when we were stationed there either to cross or watch those crossing had ONE THING IN MIND.....these couple of East German Bratwurst Vendors who would drive up with these trucks or vans and the side of the van would open and they would sell these awesome sausages with this now WORLD RENOWN EAST GERMAN MUSTARD....that was absolutely the best sausage and mustard on bread I or anyone had ever eaten.

So...there we all would be...waiting for everything to check out and then.....Stasi....KGB....and us....would literally RUN to these street vendors vans to get a Brat.

More talk and important necessary information exchanges went on with a Brat and Beer in all sides hands than EVER went on at the U.N. or through formal channels....as when you are in the field face to face you get to know people.

After awhile I would bring Levi's Jeans and a Walkman....for certain Stasi Agents kids and in return I would get a case of that Mustard which is to DIE for.

One thing that we would all talk about even though it happened over 20 years before was OSWALD and how both the KGB and the Stasi would say....NO WAY....did we have anything to do with Oswald....and EVERYONE....myself included KNEW it had to do with the MOB.

Joe Kennedy made an accommodation with the mob to steal first the West Virginia Primary and then Chicago and Illinois in the 1960 election. An FBI wiretap in 1961 picked up Chicago mob boss Sam Giancana insisting he was "double-crossed" by the Kennedys who promised not to deport certain mob figures in return for the mob's help in Chicago.

Joe Kennedy used his Moonshine Prohibition Mob ties to set up Mob controlled Union Votes for JFK.

The Joe Kennedy's pact with the mob, Kennedy's failure of nerve in the Bay of Pigs and Robert Kennedy's efforts to jettison Lyndon Johnson from the 1964 ticket were all factors in his assassination which was not carried out by a lone gunman and was the results of multiple shooters.

The Mob wanted Cuba as it was considered the Golden Goose for Mob set up Casino's and American Tourist Dollars.

When Bobby went after the Mob....this sealed both his and JFK's fate.

AboveAlpha

 

The only thing that has ever bothered me about the multiple shooters scenario (I can buy the rest of your suggestions without any problem) is the nicety of timing issue. How do you get everyone to fire near enough to simultaneously so that nobody is absolutely certain that the bullets were indeed coming from different directions? It would take one hell of a trained team with utter confidence in one another's abilities to say simply, "wait until the front bumper reaches this mark on or beside the street and then shoot."