Avg McDonald's employee wage: $7.73. Ave hourly wage of McDonald's CEO: $9,274

Ferries are too slow to do a 120 mile-per-day commute, so there'd better be a job for her in Vallejo.

I guess what you're saying is... nobody with dependants should be trying to live in SanFran unless they were able to get a student loan to get a degree to get a job that pays more than minumum, and then find a job that leaves enough left over after making loan payments to live in SanFran.

Yes, it probably is a problem that you see them as "damaged good"... so what do you suggest? That they drop their kids in a dumpster and use their minimum-wage jobs to pay for a return to a high-school where the books are up to date because the Reps didn't cut the school's budget, and where the teachers are paid well enough that good teachers work there (like they do in all other industrial democracies), and where the curriculum isn't being dumbed down by Creationsis?

 

[video=youtube;KgVwQ5E9Uoo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgVwQ5E9Uoo[/video]

These people are not actually poor. The real poor people are sifting through a garbage dump or a plowing a field in some third world country. Instead of being grateful that he even has a job and lives in a first world nation that can afford luxuries like fast food, he ridiculously claims he's being "exploited". Why? Because he has to work hard in order to get paid what his skills and knowledge are worth to free people? There are plenty of real poor people who would be happy to have his problems and his job. That's why I favor open borders and immigration. Let the hard workers from Mexico and India and China come to the US and do all the grunt work for the educated class.

 

I think what they were saying is if it is too expensive for where you're living, find a cheaper place to live and still work where you work. The other alternative would be move to a city in a state that has affordable living for the salaries available to work for. or, yes what you wrote, get an education to get a better paying job for the skills you have. Hmmm seems reasonable to me.

 

It isn't fair that they cannot afford Iphones when everyone else in America can, poverty in America has more to do with inequality than actual poverty, as they don't suffer the same as someone in a third world country.

 

I'm not arguing with your findings, I'm saying that real world data collected shows that in the US when the minimum wage was increased since 1990 (that's all the further I went back) we see on average a 2% increase in unemployment reported at the end of that year. BY the end of the next year the percentage was back to where it was prior to the raise.

Supply and demand actually doesn't have much real world applications when it comes to minimum wage jobs anyway, because the min wage law that already exists invalidates it.

For instance, if I were told "you can only make $10 per tire sold" it doesn't matter if I have 1 customer or 1 thousand I can still only make $10 per tire sold. Same difference here, it doesn't matter if 10,000 people want a job or only one wants a job, these companies are told you MUST pay at least THIS, and they have to fill so many positions, so there only choice is to pay at least THIS"

SO in essence, you're wrong, the "laws" of economics do NOT apply when it comes to the minimum wage, and we have a country have decided that that is a good thing.

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^ "these people should be happy they aren't as poor as people in third world nations"

who was is it earlier in the thread who posted that no one is stupid enough to think things like that?

By the way, they are not that poor due to WELFARE subsidizing (*)(*)(*)(*)ty wages. Why you're okay with that is beyond me.

 

I already provided you with a scholarly and comprehensive analysis of the extant empirical data relating to the minimum wage's effect on unemployment. Take some of your monies and use them to read the whole paper, that is, if you're actually interested in the "real world data".

Right, the "laws" of economics magically cease being laws when it comes to labor. How convenient for you.

I'm not okay with it. That's why I support legalizing drugs, ending our imperialistic foreign policy, and abolishing redundant federal agencies. That way we can afford to make a controlled transition away from obsolete federal entitlement programs. But this will probably not happen and the federal government will wind up like Detroit because economic ignoramuses refuse to incorporate reality into their fanciful economic models.

 

Sorry, but I call "bullpucky" on this one. I live in Fairfield (20 miles North of Vallejo), and commute by ferry every day to San Francisco from Vallejo. The total time each way is about 30-45 minutes, and it is both cheaper and shorter then commuting by car (plus these ferries have full bars and WiFi). So if I was so inclined, I could have a drink during my ride back and relax, avoiding all the 10mph traffic on the freeways.

But I not only do the commute by ferry, but have a 20 minute drive to and from the ferry terminal.

And I also do not have a college degree, nor does anybody in my department. However, we are all skilled in our jobs (network management) so what matters is our skills and experience, not some piece of paper.

One of the guys I ride with on a daily basis works in SF as a bank teller. He does the commute because the same position pays $4+ an hour better then the same job in Vallejo. One I talk to often is a college student at SFSU, and he does it because the GI Bill pays for the location of the school, not where you live. So he "games the system" by living where the rent is low, but attending school where the rents are high. Even after paying $300 a month for the pass he has a lot of money left over.

And even at minimum wage, this pays off. Minimum wage in California is $8 an hour, $12 in San Francisco. That is a $4 increase ($32 a day, $160 a week, $640+ a month).

And here we go again, people blaming politicians for the bad decisions of individuals.

How about attending some training program? For goodness sakes, there are a lot of jobs that are starving for people, but nobody seems to want those jobs. I constantly hear one of the local trucking companies offering free training and a 1 year contract for truck drivers (mostly short and medium haul). We also have vocational education programs teaching everything from Microsoft Word and Excel to basic mechanics and cable installation.

Hell, almost anybody could do my job with as little as a few computer books, about $200-300 worth of computer equipment, and a year to learn and practice. If somebody can become a Security Guard, a $200 class to get a Guard Card can get you an $18+ an hour job easy in SF (and the pay goes up sharply as they add more certifications - especially a gun card), and some companies are so hurting for security guards that they will even pay for the certification to qualified applicants.

So when I hear of some adult who is "stuck working minimum wage jobs", that is their fault for not trying to pursue anything other then minimum wage jobs.

 

what are you talking about? I took the actual data from each of those years and crunched the numbers, and determined that unemployment in this country is 2% after an increase in the min wage then before, and that in the next year it corrects itself.

IF you don't recognize those numbers as factual numbers, that's on you.

 

So you're going to pretend like I didn't already provide you with a scholarly research paper that analyzed the data pertaining to the minimum wage? Well, here it is again:

Sorry if I don't take your amateurish and unsubstantiated calculations and inferences at face value. I prefer scholarly analyses that are subject to the peer review process.

 

my "amateurish" attempt, included the data, your "scholarly" paper did not. We have no way of knowing what data they even used to come to their conclusion. You simply like the conclusion they drew. Sorry, doesn't work that way for me, I want to see the RAW DATA.

You're dismissed as a 75%er.

 

I gotta agree with you on this one, a commute is no excuse. In fact the reason we moved from CA to AR is because my dad grew tired of the commute , he was driving from Diamond Barr to sometimes Hollywood, or San Bernandino, or Pomona or sometimes further every day depending on where his company wanted him at any given time. You do what you have to do in that regard.

 

What about all the people *with* an education, who can't find anything, and who keep getting told to humble themselves and accept minimum-wage jobs in fast-food?

 

Impossible, the economy is great there are jobs for all

 

You said the distance is 60 miles by ferry... which means to make it a 30-45 minute ride, the ferry would have to be going between 85-120 mph.

 

Damn, are we actually agreeing on something? *laugh*

And trust me, did the entire LA thing. Lived for years in the Mojave Desert, worked near LAX. 100 miles each way, 2-3 hours each way. Up at 5, out the door by 6 to get to work at 9. Then get off at 5, maybe home by 8pm that night. It was insane, and killed more cars then I can remember.

I moved to Alabama. Income, about half as much as I made in LA. But the rent was a fraction of what I paid, commute was 10-15 minutes, and I was actually able to save money and improve my standard of living.

 

OK, let me clarify and correct myself then.

Road distance is around 60 miles, the ferry is shorter (how much I do not know) because it is a much straighter path. But their average speed during the commute is around 40mph.



And they are not called "high speed ferries" for nothing.



And with a capacity from 250-350 (depending on the boat), a lot of people use this for commuting on a daily basis.

 

Okay... in that case, I get it. I have coleagues in Vancouver, Canada, living on an island close to Vancouver, and their daily commute by ferry is shorter than when they had to drive from the suburbs... and they have a nicer, cheeper place to live.

 

Folks in Chicago Drive 90 minutes to work and pay tolls on their way each way to live in cheaper cities. Don't make excuses now.

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Do you ever open a paper and look at the classifieds?

 

I think a lot of people get confused because they hear "ferry", and think the RORO car carriers like the Alaska Marine Highway, or to Victoria Island. Big monohull vessels, not the high speed catamarans used only for people.

And yea, I have taken those also. From Vancouver to Victoria in the mid 1970's, and across Lake Michigan in the early 1980's. Definitely not a way you ever want to commute.

 

I remember in the early 1970's, when "The suburbs" of LA was the San Fernando Valley (20 miles). And my dad had a crazy cousin who worked on Wilshire, but moved to Simi Valley (40 miles West) to buy a nicer home. Then by the early 1980's, the "suburbs" was the Santa Clarita Valley (40 miles North). By the 1990's, it was the Antelope Valley (70 miles).

And the city has pretty much maxed it's outward spread, people just can't move out any further. So now the older suburbs are getting more and more congested, and the traffic is getting worse and worse every year. I spent a couple of days there 2 months ago and absolutely hated it. I left that city over 10 years ago, and never want to go back if I can avoid it.

 

It is nothing of the sort, what business school taught you that?

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ROFLMAO on now that is ruch, McDonalds trains it's Corporate Officers and Executives at it's manager school, just hilarious.

 

No they do not, it would be against the law.

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Start an independent DUH.

 

No one said it was.
well you had to start at the beginning to understand this statement... I don't work at MCD's and I have a good education.

 

Funny thing is Jim Skinner started as a low level burger flipper in HS, did 10 years in the Navy and became a manager trainee at a local Mc Donalds and worked his way up. Got to love capitalism and upward mobility

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Skinner

 

MCD promotes with in its stores.