Why is Obamacare Failing?

Clearly, you are clueless on the subject of health insurance, you have however absorbed a lot of slogans, and are quite facile are regurgitating them.
That is not an intellectual argument, it's just blah, blah, blah.....

OK you cited the experts, name one, you can't, you can name Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin and Charles Krauthammer and they will all say that ObamaCare is a disaster, name an actuary, go ahead, try....

 

Actually The facts I stated and yes they are facts clearly show why it is a disaster.

My referrence to experts was in response to anothers claim of experts which they also did not name.

 

Actually you are just repeating what you have been told.
I have spoken with actuaries, and they all think ObamaCare is a big improvement, even with the rollout problems.
And they give reasons, something called "selectivity" was destroying the US health insurance system, it was in a death spiral, costs rapidly increasing, number of uninsured rising, employers dropping coverage, and those not dropping it completely cutting back.
That was the actual state of the system, ObamaCare addresses that, and it is an improvement.
Not even the GOP leadership thinks that repealing ObamaCare is possible, they failed in their last best chance, going forward a few years, it will be untouchable, no one will want to give it up, unless it gets replaced with something better, and that is not a voucher system.

And you are stating facts, but they don't prove anything, the system isn't rolled out yet, if it is a failure, it will take another year before you can state that with certainty, you are just speculating, or worse, cheerleading...

 

No I am stating facts which you refuse to address because they prove you wrong.

Actuaries are not experts on health care. Even so I am sure you can speak to a couple of them who share your political faith while ignoring the facts which prove Obama care is a failure and can only get worse. Is in fact getting worse.

 

No! What is destroying the healthcare system is the madate that entitled everyone to a bottomless pit of healthcare.
We are being crushed under the weight of the imposition of our best intentions upon others.

 

Yes, you are stating facts, but it's like describing batting practice, the game hasn't really begun and you are claiming that you know the outcome, which I'll admit you may actually believe, but only because you are dealing with a subject where you know next to nothing.

Do you even know what an actuary does?

 

I worked out actuarial tables regularly up until my retirement this year.

obamacare cannot fulfill the responibilities for which it now has authority.

It's not even close.

 

Those are slogans, and not even very good slogans.
What exactly is the madate that entitled everyone to a bottomless pit of healthcare?

And why is it that other countries can provide all their citizens with health care, but it's just too expensive for the US to do that, why is that?

 

Well, we'll see won't we.
Do you actually have access to the data that actuaries use, or are you just winging it........giving us a gut feel, no data involved...?

 

"What is destroying the healthcare system is the madate that entitled everyone to a bottomless pit of healthcare."

I can't wait for this to be explained.

 

As to line one: I respond in the hope that line one is a condescension usually beneath you. But don't try to deal with me like that again, ok?

As to line two: Ronald Reagan passed the law in the early '80s that mandated treatment upon presentation at ER. That has been expanded upon over the years with very good intentions and disasterous consequences.

As to line three: US healthcare will decline to 'those' levels in both quality and quantity.

Things will be more 'fair', but there will be less being shared more.
There will also remain those of us who will purchase healthcare privately even if that is criminalized.
I really don't have a dog in this fight. For now anyway, it amounts to just another compliance tax to mitigate.

In my opinion, the use of force, even the force of law, is wholly illegitimate when it is used to impose the best intentions of some upon others. In my opinion, the most dangerous people in the world are those who do not see the imposition of their best intentions upon others as a usurpation of other people's best intentions for themselves; they see it as an alternative to that which is substandard.

The greatest threat to life is the threat to liberty, and the greatest threat to liberty does not come from those who impose their
less-than-best intentions upon others, it comes from those who would impose their very best intentions for others upon them.
Progressives on the 'left' and the 'right', islamists, communists, fascists and socialists are all possessed of the same benevolent arrogance and the same desire to impose their very best intentions upon others. I don't foresee any net good coming from obamacare.

 

If that's the case, I'd suggest you file a lawsuit against the government charging them with a violation of the 4th Amendment. That's what I'd do if i felt as you apparently do.

 

The alternative to Obamacare is many more uninsured, who, when they, inevitably, need health care, get it in the most expensive, least effective way, emergency rooms, or declare bankruptcy. They pass the cost on to others.

These uninsured are young and old, men and women, poor and middle class, citizens and aliens.

ACA requires those who are paid enough, to get coverage, or subsidizes those who are not.

 

see post 336

- - - Updated - - -

see post 336

 

People who risk requiring others to pay for their healthcare are not patriots saving liberty. They are either not paid enough to afford it, or they are irresponsible.

 

There should be no risk of anyone paying for the healthcare of anyone else on anything other than a voluntary basis. Patriots are advocates for the voluntary.

 

where's the money coming from for this?

 

We are a Democracy that means I can vote with other poor citizens to take from others and give to us.

And since the law is taking affect you tell the poor in states where they are getting help your taking it away, go on, this includes the closing donut hole for the senior citizens drug plan and insurance for those who have coverage now.

 

I've been to countries like that. Somalia comes to mind. No thanks.

 

We have always been a democracy. The alternatives are various forms of tyranny.

If you're worried about the poor taking over the country, stop making so many.

I like the country in the control of the middle class, the creators of all wealth. The workers. The 60%.

 

People who business chooses to pay enough, paying for their own healthcare. Tax payers will have to subsidize businesses that choose not to.

 

In my opinion providing universal health coverage to all citizens is a great and worthy goal, that every first world country seems to be able to do, and now the US is finally trying to address a shameful situation where we have 50 million citizens without health coverage, including millions of children.
It's a practical problem that requires a practical solution.
Not a bunch of sloganeering, it requires real action.
ObamaCare was about the best that was politically feasible at the time, as a practical matter.
Sure, there are better schemes, and eventually we will be forced to adopt them by financial realities, but ObamaCare represents a big improvement over what we had, and over time we will improve it, whenever it is politically feasible.

 

From the people who get the coverage, they are paying for it.

Where did the money come from before, for people without insurance?

 

We are not a democracy and never have been.

Voting to take from one to give to anther is simply theft by proxy and no law here allows for that it is in fact abuse of what is other wise a great system of government.

I believe it was Franklin who said the republic will die when people realize they can vote to get money.

 

and who is Obama care going to hurt the worse? the middle class the ones who make to much to receive subsides but not enough that the increase in the insurance rates wont hurt