I have just as much 'right' to criticize Uganda's laws as I have the right to criticize Nazi Germanys laws against Jews and Gypsies. The bible calls for executing children who swear at their parents- I would be just as critical of Uganda if they implemented that law.
It is disgusting to see Christians here casually defending policies that would ruin the lives of homosexuals and then dressing their hateful opinions up in the language of a victim. Christians are not the victims here, your religious freedom begins and ends with your own life and you have no right to impose your puritanical morality on others.
I see. Apparently you missed my first message explaining how different homosexuality is in societies other than America. Your "Myth and Reality" reference applies only to the USA, the psychologists are Americans studying Americans. In other countries, lets say, 95% of homosexuals target make teenagers to have sex with them. Homosexuals pay them for sex, homosexuals even feed them, dress them, give them lots of gifts, treat them as "their men". And, many male teenagers have sex with older homosexuals in order to obtain goods so they can get out with their girlfriends. Here in the USA, only older, very older homosexuals are "generous" and must pay about $300 to younger men for having sex with them. There are also homosexuals looking for male teenagers, but not as much as it happens in other countries. The reference given by American psychologists don't apply in absolute with what is going on in Uganda. Look, the main point here is respect. Respect for nature is one of them. Nature made us a two gender species, and made us have sexual organs to couple. The anus and rectum are part of the digestive system, they deal with the disposal of excrement, the muscles of this part of the digestive system are formed that way to facilitate the exit of excrement and to impede the entrance of foreign objects to our bodies. Forcing the entrance of objects thru the anus is anti-nature. Do you call bigotry to make you understand that homosexuality is against the integrity of the human body? Do you think that bleeding rectums is a good thing? Come on. If psychologists support the idea of an individual letting another individual to cause the bleeding of his rectum "as normal", then these psychologists surely have the wrong career and must be no more than cashiers in a fast food restaurant. You can't declare "as normal" when an individual allows somebody causing him to bleed, such kind of pleasure is abnormal, and surely need of mental treatment as well as the one who take a knife and make cuts in his own body and finds satisfaction. Homosexuality is unacceptable from all points of view. I think that homosexuality has been passed to be accepted by psychologists because many people refuse to accept that their sons need of mental treatment, and instead of suffering the shame of having a loony in the family, they have paid very well to cover it up. It can't be that homosexuality considered as a disease and even against the law, changed to "normal sexual orientation" and even laws created to defend it. All this smells corruption, and politicians and judges surely are not honest people at all. Well, you have the support of corrupt politicians and judges, but not mine, and my opinion will always be "corruption free" regardless of how many times you imply my opinion as bigotry.
That's still locked in collectivist thinking - the Indians didn't own the whole land any more than the Americans who succeeded them. They owned the land they put into production - their camps, for example. 9/11 wasn't justified because it wasn't retaliatory force. If they wanted to do retaliatory force they shouldn't have blown up a bunch of people who had nothing to do with US aggression against "their" land and probably had little knowledge of it. Morality in the conventional sense is the wrong word to use, my apology - by this I mean an end. We all have ends in mind - mine is my conception of liberty, the government's is usually expansion of power, the average voter's is usually increased prosperity, a Christian's might be to prevent sinful action as defined by their religious views. That's all fine, I'm not saying their end is any more or less valid than my own - but that doesn't in any way deprive me of my own. You cannot derive normative statements (of which morality is a subset) from descriptive ones - such statements are inherently subjective, they require human input. In the absence of humans, they make no sense. All we can do is express our views, and highlight what is congruent with our worldview, and what is not. Caging homosexuals like animals is very much not congruent with my worldview, as I have stated above.
You claim your version of right and wrong is better than everyone else's. That's nice, but how do you know you're right?
You have every right to do so and I have not disputed that. As for kids swearing at mummy and daddy, I'm less than familiar with that one; perhaps you could post it.
Easily- with evidence and proof. Kids who grow up in same sex households do just as well as any other kids. http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...5/gay-parents-raising-kids-how-will-they-fare
I take little issue with the Ugandan government because they have a very valid means to their ends. They value the prevention of sinful action, they employ the use of force to meet this end - forced caging and executions. That's a perfectly rational means to achieve their ends. I have a problem with homosexuals and others who liberty, voluntary interaction, not being caged or slaughtered like animals for said liberty, but employ a means that is completely contrary to this end: sitting around, letting the Ugandan police do what they want. Implicitly cooperating with the state's ends rather than their own. It's an irrational means of achieving their end. Rather, a more effective strategy would be to keep yourself armed if you're a homosexual, and if criminal scum try to cage you, shoot them dead and go into hiding.
A brief look at your link says most Christians do not go with this killing. A further search suggests why http://carm.org/leviticus-18-22 The murder of homosexuals is clearly ruled out in Christianity, albeit this interpretation still calls for them to be treated as if they were creating a sin. This attitude I have heard frequently from Christians and is ironic. The sin is to devalue and degrade others as sinful because of who they are. Many Christians thankfully have also moved past that one. When the UK had laws on killing homosexuals, they did not come from Christianity. Uganda is not a Theocracy despite attempts by American Neo Cons and Conservative Christians to make it one - and one of the most cruel kind. Of course we must remember that it was colonisation which brought Christianity to Uganda and with that the desire to control Africans hence a very orthodox form of Christianity which goes against their culture on social things. It appears the US Conservatives have managed to hide that they are socially on the right from them. This neo colonialism is still in operation under the auspices of Christianity. One but only one of a network coming from the US Right is the International Transformation Network deviously taking from africa culture fears of witches and demons to indoctrinate them If you listen to the video you will notice among many other things how the training of African Churches is being taken over by American Right. You be aware that while many of the people are African, they are trained and financed and bribed by the American neo cons and Christian Right. This 'Christianity' is called 'prosperity Christianity'. It allows one to become wealthy simply by eliminating the demon homosexuals from within - no need to bother about corrupt Governments who are being paid well to hypnotise you to believe this. http://vimeo.com/8749833 Thankfully Africans politicians and religious leaders—such as Malawian president Joyce Banda and Ugandan Bishop Christopher Ssenyonjo have not fallen for this and stand up for human rights and the support of international social justice advocates. There is still hope. Well you have just been shown that it is not Christian to kill gays. Your quote also failed to mention lesbians and as you yourself brought it in, you hardly have a right to speak about whether it should be in this thread or not. My grandson is two and he enjoys using things like the word bum with a pretend fart thinking he is being very clever. How old are you? Never mind the reality that you would need to be killing probably more hetro's than gays if that was what you were basing it on. In response to this post http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=336599&page=25&p=1063472067#post1063472067 coupled with this which in response to that post would only make sense if Christians had already been murdering homosexuals was what I perceived as you intent on trying to make Christians feel they ought to want to kill homosexuals if they are Christians and ought to be able to do that with no retribution. Obviously the 'laws' you are talking about, is your believe that they have 'laws' to kill homosexuals. I did have second thoughts after I gave you the warning but then on looking at how you were concerned that Christians would receive consequences for killing gays, I felt it was appropriate. If you started telling Christians in my country that they should be killing homosexuals, I would be onto the authorities about you.
I possibly missed it. What you said was no different to many posts on the lies which have been presented as truths in Africa. Research does not depend on where it is done. It depends on the objectivity of the research. People with your orientation are spreading lies about the US to Africa, so no, poor try. a) you would need to provide evidence for this as I provided you and b) as SFJEFF has pointed out in Uganda young girls through poverty are forced into prostitution with old men. Regarding homosexuals paying people for sex, I have recently been reading about the Roma and their visits to European cities. One of the ways the young men made money was by prostituting themselves and it was not gay men who were buying their services. well this of course is not what we were talking about. We were talking about paedophilia and child molestation. If older homosexuals buy younger sexual prostitutes then you are not comparing like for like. Some US men have a great liking for young girls. Besides of which as I have said already those who hire gay prostitutes are often not gay. There is nothing in this to condone cruelty campaigns and discrimination against homosexuals and all you have provided me with is your believe unlike the real and accepted research I presented you with. Gays are not more danger to children than heterosexuals. http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2010/winter/10-myths The reference given by American researchers are adequate concerning the problem of child molestation wherever that molestation takes place. However Uganda's have been given the most gross lies by the IRD and Christian Right about LGBT. They do not trust Progressive Christians as the Christian Right have convinced them they are neo imperialist trying to trick them about homosexuals and that with the bribery has sold the deal. Uganda and other African countries need to do their own research on sexuality so that they can discover what has already been shown to be true. They need to do this research themselves because having been fooled once, by the Christian Right, the only way they will believe it, is if it is their own. There are academics and Christians who see this and want it. However making it happen, getting the funding and even being allowed to in a country where even knowing someone is gay can result in a prison sentence may prove to be problematic. Until that research is done and proves other than the American, the objective thing to do is to go by the credited American research. 1) you should be aware than anal sex is carried out at least as much by heterosexuals as by gay men. 2) I do agree it is about respect. It is about respecting people and treating them equally and giving every one the rights to the same opportunities within the law. Gay people have always been around. In most societies it appears they have been more accepted than in European I call it bigotry to try to harm people for who they are and I would remind you that concerning anal sex this is, according to Stephen Fry, something done more by heterosexuals than gays. He was so sickened when he was in Uganda with all the talk of Sodomy plus the most monstrous things associated with it that having dismissed that trash, he pointed out that he had never engaged in it and gave a brief description of the loving relationship he has with his partner. Your hate is unable to appreciate that love.
I had forgotten I was supposed to put you on ignore and will do after this. If you do not know that plenty of heterosexual have anal sex then you clearly know very little. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/06/anal-sex-heterosexual-couples-report_n_1190440.html US study http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr036.pdf Got it now. Do not associate anal sex just with gay men or that anal sex is the only way in which gay men experience their sexual relations. anyway as I said, I had forgotten our last meeting and my promise. Will correct that now. bye.
They may equally cite the spread of AIDS in the homosexual community. Regardless of the PC speak, that's where the spread first started in western countries.
really.......cry me a river. We have just as much right to force our views on you as you have with us...funny how the libs cry about their treatment...I wonder how the Christians felt as they were led to the pits by Liberals, or the Jews at the hands of a progressive Liberal named Hitler...............
As I said, the bible was changed to suit newer feeling, not what Christians claim to be the word of God and the laws they should follow. Not my fault if many Christians don't believe in the bible and/or feel the need to change/ignore it. In Uganda, they wish to follow what they feel is morally correct. As for the quote you linked to (I added it to save anyone the bother of clicking the link), where does that say I advocate, encourage or agree with killing people for being gay? I believe you may have supplied the link instead of the quote because you know you're wrong but wanted to look like you were right. As for your silly statement about my telling people to go forth and kill gays, another load of old crap you made up. I believe you owe me two apologies. Edit. Actually, I believe you're making two assumptions, both wrong, and that is making you read what I haven't typed. Perhaps you should try some reading comprehension; the sort non native speakers learn when they do TOEFL tests.
So you support sending people to prison just for being homosexual? The rest of your post is an empty provocation not worth responding to.
Hmm I can see why progressive Patriot declined to answer you on this Christianity bit. I was just curious given that Christians when having a go at muslims always claim they have gone through an enlightenment. have not any idea what your imagination is imagining but it belongs to you not me.. I didn't say that, though possibly it was what you were thinking. I said 'So stop inciting illegal acts of murder' http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=336599&page=25 My statement was built on your going on about how Christians have laws to kill Gays and should do so with impunity. I pointed out that you do not have the right to murder gays in Indonesia and said the above.. That is my opinion of how you have been speaking though what you write is itself very difficult to decipher and I have no desire to further try. That was my opinion from what you wrote. I do not agree Well you should work a bit harder at your English so it is comprehensible and not sulk so much because your arguments are defeated. This conversation ends here.
Grow up and that is just disgusting, maybe it would be a good idea for you to refrain from discussion, good idea indeed.
These statistics mean nothing given that the demographic of those questioned is not shown and could quite easily have been done at a hollywood studio, radio station, drug infested nightclub, brothel you name it who knows. Its disgusting but clearly you think its normal. You just won a place on my ignore list and dont send you alts to respond to this either.
